Larry you can get the rings seperately from climbing equipment manufacturers such as Raumer. These are fully rated and tested. When compiling your own anchore setups you need to be absolutely certain that the alloys in the various components are compatible, DO NOT MIX YOUR METALS! Ie 316 components need to be matched to 316 or compatible steels. If you mix the alloys in a non compatible combination they will corrode alarmingly quickly even inland. This is yet another reason that we urge people to simply buy the premade setups, at least then we can be sure that all the components are rated and all alloys are of a compatible variety.

Justin some of the anchors you show pictures of are not suitable or acceptable by local standards. I also feel that putting up pictures like those are encouraging people to experiment and invent their own systems, this something we want too strongly discourage!! Eg: Scott Miller has placed anchors at the mine and elsewhere that feature an aluminium biner attached by a mild steel mailon to a stainless steel hanger, these things are death traps!! The aluminium is corroding through extremely fast due to electrolytic reactions between the different alloys.

PLEASE! Everyone just stick to the specifically designed and manufactured equipment, peoples lives are at stake here!! Im sure none of you want to face manslaughter charges because you were too cheap to fork out for decent equipment!!
PS: Although you can get the appropriate Hilti or Fischer bolts through a hardware store please buy them only from the official Hilti or Upat outlets, this ensures that you are getting the right thing and that the bolts have not been mishandled. There is no margin for error here people! Get it right!

Here are some examples of what a proper anchor should be taken from the Raumer site. Note the first three anchors shown must be placed in pairs.
Below is an anchor suited to high chloride environments such as near the sea.


The next two are also stainless steel but because they need mechanical anchors to fasten to the rock they are more suited inland application.




Below are the rings Larry was after.


Now you are probably all wondering WTF? Ive never seen these before! Thats because they cost! Most local anchors feature only a ring, not biners. These however are not strictly top anchors they are designed as abseil anchors only. The problem with rings is that you need to untie to thread the ring thus exposing yourself to risk unecessarily with every route you clean. I feel that high usage crags should be equipped with the above anchors thus greatly reducing the risks involved in cleaning a route and speeding up your turnover of routes during a session by a wide margin. Even highly experienced climbers like Lynn Hill have been severely injured by a moments inattention during the cleaning procedure. On Kalymnos only clip-in anchors are allowed and these are sponsored by the local council. If a tiny community like that can get a good system like this implemented there is no reason we cant do the same here.

Another excellent sport anchor this time from Fixe

Those are truly awesome anchors. I see the prices were not included. Probrably shocking. Any stock in SA? Is anyone still importing Raumer? Its a pity that our authorities are not sponsoring.

I really need tA. Anyone got any stock?

Hi Marshall, they are awesome but yes very costly. The Fixe goes for $33 a pop! Raumer havent put prices on their site but are generally a bit less expensive than Fixe. Try Mountain Mail Order for TA's Ive been on at them to get more stock so maybe? - Just called them they have the single ring and two hangers conected by chain combos, give them a shout! 021 6836026

hey XMod! Interesting stuff!
Just a note. Lynn Hill's accident was not due to inattention during the cleaning procedure, but due to inattention during the tying the knot procedure while she was still on the ground.

OK right! I thought she'd fluffed during the cleaning procedure - oops my bad! There are other examples of accidents happening with untying. Anyway with the cost of these units we would need some serious sponsorship to put them up. Hopefully one day.....sigh!

These all look great, but I am not looking at bolting anything, the bolts are there already.

They are U bolts and some of them have nothing attached, just the bolt, so the bolt itself is getting worn. I would love to be able to add a few of the rings, as shown in the above pic, but have yet to find out where to get just the ring from.

Hmm

$33 x R10.10 X 2 = R666.60 + Postage + Vat + 2 X R21(bolts)

Is that more than R710 for a set of top anchor? You see, its not really happening. There is no authority picking up the tab in my case.

pictures of awsome top anchors are nice But not very useful. I prefer some sort of reality.

@ Larry: Hi check out these links:
http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodo ... &qi=4-11-0

http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodo ... s&qi=4-9-0

Im not sure if Raumer do direct retail sales so you may need to order them especially through your local retailer. What you would want to do is attach the rings to the existing bolts with a mailon. Again just make sure the mailon is properly rated and that the alloys in your setup are compatible with one another. All the best, let us know how it went, how to order etc.

Marshall check your PM inbox.

I think the reality is that if I add anything to the existing structures, it will be a mailon on a mailon on a bolt, end of story. Even that is nearly a R200 exercise per climb.

** with My Ram Mountaineering hat on**

Mailons recomended retail for 10mm is R55.30. 55kn breaking strain about its major axes- its going to last longer then the bolt!

The 8mm mailon sells at R40, but its breaks at a poultry 35kn. i wouldn't recomend going for any less than that due to the inside diameter, but i would suggest every one has one for retreating

i haven't read the whole forum yet, but why do we need the ring as welll as the mailon? surely if the Mailon is replacable it can take the abuse and then get replaced? it saves the community R100's per chains? it is still easily possable to use it like a ring. if you are woried about it unscrewing then glue it shut, but then it won't be easy to replace/steal

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Sandbagging is a dirty game

The rings last way longer than a Mailon, also as we dont have a price on them yet you cant assume it will cost more to use them especially given they last so much longer (long term costs).

Also rope twist. One mallion on each U bolt will lead to rope twist. You will need 2 per U

I had worked on putting a mailon on a mailon on the existing bolt to prevent rope twist. Some of the top anchors at Strubens have that already, just not all of them.

Warren, I think the 35kn on an 8mm mailon will outlast my rope, my harness and my spine if I really take a big fall, so should be more than enough.

The ring idea just seemed like an elegant solution, so if you happen to come across any of those rings, let me know.

Yeah definitely need two links. Look a short-term low-cost solution can just be a BIG link of harware chain (think overkill) mailoned onto the bolts. Just ensure that any sharp edges on the weld in the chain link are filed flat. This will protect the bolts while you can sort out something more permanent. Many anchors Ive made feature this and are still servicable, BUT I really want to discourage people from going the homemade route. If theres a failure leading to injury or worse........lets not go there!

I think that 4 x 8mm Mailons = R160 per climb won't break the bank, if spread over a period of time.

I think the guys that open routes must have more money than brains, just looking at what the hardware alone costs, never mind the time element.

Larry i was being sarcastic. 35kn is unfathomingly strong.

in Wave cave they installed steel binerss, but its essentially indoors.

H as anyone ever heard of a chain wearing through due to top roping? I haven't

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Sandbagging is a dirty game

I have not seen serious wear on local anchors but if you head to popular overseas destinations, some of the anchors and biners are seriously (read: dangerously) worn.

I think that getting people into a habit of NOT top-roping directly off the anchors is a good preventative measure as it spreads the wear fairly evenly among the users (especially since local climbing numbers do seem to be on the up and up), because lets face it, the people doing the majority of the top-roping are not going to be the ones replacing the anchors when they're worn.

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Open hand, open mind...

Yeah Ive also seen mailons badly worn through in France. This was from guides setting up topropes for their clients and being to lazy to set draws as it would mean they had to climb the route again to retreive them! The mailons were apparently only three years old (looked worse to me - rusty).
The only thing wrong with 8mm on the rope side is its a bit thin and puts some stress on the rope (10-12mm is ideal for being gentle on ropes) also being thinner there is less material to wear away - minor gripes.

Heres the stuff we have used when the shops are out of stock of decent anchors. This only a temporary solution and should be replaced as soon as something better can be sourced. In the case of Strubens where there is heavy use steel rings would be best. The rings are probably only R30-40 so not that expensive. The chain is made from 10mm diameter rod and can take a biner and rope comfortably, but you only have to look at this to see the difference in quality between it and a proper rated anchor. However as a stop gap this will cost you less than a mailon.