not so average trad rack.

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deSouzaFrank
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not so average trad rack.

Post by deSouzaFrank » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi all
I've started trad climbing. Only hoooopsy is my rack consists of cams sizes 1-3 two small nuts and various amounts of different size rap cord that I have tied monkey fist knots, fig of 8 knots etc. They work pretty ok but I'm yet to take a fall on them. So... My question is would it actually be ok, according to you, to take a fall on these make shift passive gear?

Second question is what gear do you normally use to protect "aapstreke 15" at boven?

Thanks.

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Forket
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Forket » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:30 pm

leave the gear on the ground, makes topping out on that route way faster:)

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Sounds like you are climbing in the East German/Czech Republic style. They have very soft rock and therefore prohibit the use of any metal gear to avoid scarring the rock. There was something about it in the Reel Rock Tour video a couple of years ago. It works for them... Personally I'd save up and buy decent gear.
Also remember the consequences of a fall on low (<20) grade trad are far more severe (although falls are less likely) than falls on higher grades because of the angle of the rock. Fall off on easy trad and you will bounce several times if you ran it out...
Happy climbing
Nic

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by joshpickering » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:48 am

You should be perfectly fine if you don't fall...
I believe there are a couple of sport routes at Boven too, perhaps climb on them until you can add to your rack a bit! All you need is a set of nuts (sounds like you already have a set the way you're climbing!!) and maybe some hexes and you'll be okay.

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Justin
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Justin » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:30 am

Frank, you may die or (more likely) inconvenience others by making them carry you out on a stretcher.

Make a plan, beg, borrow or steal some proper/sufficient gear, know how to use it and then go tradding.
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Oakley
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Oakley » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Like this
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deSouzaFrank
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by deSouzaFrank » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:31 pm

Yeah like that. See the big knots? They are called monkey fist knots. They are actually boating knots. If you pull them real tight on them selfs they become super hard. But I'm rather put off of the idea now that its not just my belay buddy telling me its a stupid idea.

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Justin » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:46 pm

I just don't think that Boven rock is very accepting of this type of protection.

Have you thought about threading a range of mechanical nuts? :)
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deSouzaFrank
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by deSouzaFrank » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:51 pm

Threading mechanical nuts???

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Justin
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Justin » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:53 pm

Sure (by mechanical I mean normal nuts that you tighten onto a thread with a spanner).
I'll get you a pic shortly.
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Justin
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Justin » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:06 pm

Here you go - not the best placing, but you can see how the nut acts as a hex - the cord goes under the rock as I pushed two rocks together to show the placement.
I am of the opinion the Monkey Fist knot would work better on softer rock. Where as on very hard Boven rock it is more prone to slide (out).

Seriously though... go get some proper gear - join your local Mountain Club and you should be able to use their gear.
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Hann
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Hann » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:11 pm

What about the thread of the nut cutting into the rope?

Would it not be best to file down the thread of the nut first?

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by shorti » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:59 pm

Hann wrote:What about the thread of the nut cutting into the rope?

Would it not be best to file down the thread of the nut first?
Yes.

You can climb with rocks in your pockets (chock them in a crack and sling them) if you really want to be hardcore :rambo:

Frank, I know it is tough times, but I quickly checked (on MMO for convenience sake), you can get 10 BD nuts, 4 DMM nuts (to double on the medium sizes) and a set of 7 hexes for just over R3k. That's not so bad. Maybe you and your buddy can go 50/50 and use your sport draws and ropes.

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Oakley » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:03 pm

I second Shorti's advice...

Cams are not needed when starting out.

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by shorti » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:26 pm

Just for the hell of it, I built a decent rack (excluding stuff like harnesses, shoes, helmets and chalk). I went for stuff I would buy, cheap where it makes little difference, but not holding back on nice to haves. Prices are from MMOs website. Maybe this will give prospective traddies an idea of how hard it will hit their pockets to build a decent rack.

Notes:
I didn't include the smallest mastercam (00), it's mostly useless. The 0 is also something you can get by without.
Replacing the Dragons with C4s (#1-4) will work out about R150 cheaper.
The cam sizes don't overlap in size between the mastercams and dragons. The nut/hex/cam sizes don't overlap either.
The brand of nuts don't make that much difference, but you can get by a little cheaper with BD. Their sizing works different and I just went for what I'm using.
I went for the Beal ropes simply because they are tried and tested, Edelrid and Bluewater are good alternatives.
I went for phantom draws because they are awesome. I think they'll have short dog bones, so you'll ideally want to get some 20+cm dogbones for them. I've included 4 60cm dyneemas to make nice extendible trad draws.
I went for tape instead of sewn nylon slings, just because it is cheaper and not that much different.
The cord is to make a nice long cordilette, I don't like that alpine equalizer enough to pay the price.
No you don't have to take all the hexes, but you can get hexes instead of cams or alternate in sizes, but quite frankly you'll have more options if you double your cam rack with a hex rack.
This rack has some 40-50m pitches in mind.

Sorry for the hi-jack
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tygereye
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by tygereye » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:49 pm

You don't have to buy top of the range (read: usually the most expensive) stuff. All the gear available at reputable climbing shops are tested and safety rated, so you can trust them.
Once you get to know what the gear does, how to place it and what you like, then you can upgrade and sell the entry level gear to newbies.
Start on grades you are super-comfortable on, so that falling isn't much of a threat, and you can concentrate more on the gear. As you get used to it, get to trust your placements, you'll know when you can start on harder stuff.

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Dragon » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:26 am

Dude do yourself a HUGE favour and join the MCSA. Someone near you will offer to mentor you while using his own gear (in return for you holding his rope when he is hard up for a partner).
You will get to climb on safe gear.
You will get some degree of mentorship on tradclimbing - which is worth its weight in gold
You will get to see what gear you like and want.
You will slowly be able to build up your own rack - and I'm willing to bet you will score some hand-me-downs from the mentor
You will join a climbing organisation that has pages and pages of advantages for you as a climber, and in turn you support the guardian of our mountains/ access etc
Its a WIN WIN WIN

BruceT
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by BruceT » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:44 am

Jislaaik Shorti! Decent! That is an insanely awsome rack!
My eyes have glazed over, my fingers are flexing uncontrollably, sweat is dripping down my brow, I am overcome with desire!
My credit card is cowering (fortunately is doesn't seem to work at MMO so my family is saved penury and car guarding...).
God, we love our toys!
Let me try to earn my keep...

joshpickering
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by joshpickering » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:34 am

You can also do what I did... marry a girl with a trad rack!

shorti
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by shorti » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:40 am

:lol: so true Bruce!

I've been a little silly with the dragon cams. If you replace #3-5 with C4s (#1-3) and you keep the #6 dragon instead of the #4 C4 you save R300 and get pretty much the same. You loose out on the extendible slings a bit, but it's not THAT awesome. You can also get Singing Rock screw gates (they're good, I have about 3) instead of the Aeros, then you'll save a bit.

Josh you're a lucky lucky man!

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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by BruceT » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:21 pm

Ha ha, not only is Josh lucky, he is also brave or being newly married, perhaps he has a few lessons to learn: have a feeling they might be coming up shortly! I am certainly not brave enough to make any comment about said rack.

But, quickly moving on back to Franck's rack: as said above, easy low angle trad is MORE risky than steeper angle. Frank - get at least a set of 10 nuts and EXTEND them (buy lots cheap tape, cut and tie with water knot, I assume you have q/draws - seperate out the biners - most sport q/draw wishbones are too stiff and will pull out gear especially at low angles) - that should stop you dying for now...

Poppie
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by Poppie » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:15 pm

I thought it might just be fair to set the record straight - Josh might have married a girl with a trad rack, but she married a guy with a climbing wall...

BruceT
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Re: not so average trad rack.

Post by BruceT » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:38 am

so, a marriage made in heaven!

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