re-opening of Redhill?

For the posting and discussion of Access Issues and Closures for Areas around South Africa.
Warren G
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Re: Redhill/Coppermine access closure

Post by Warren G » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:41 pm

Not to repeat myself but why don't we (climbers) settle a long term strategy for boulder field maintenance where by some areas are closed for a year or so to allow plants to grow back, while re-opening other areas that were previously closed for rehabilitation? There is plenty of bouldering for Western Cape climbers and we can easily afford such a luxurious solution.

A solution like this will do several things, but mainly keep the outdoors naturally beautiful and show the authorities that we are serious about the first point. Otherwise I happen to agree with their current strategy as boulders have shown little initiative to protect the environment, and instead kill plants and cut paths willy-nilly. We tolerate individuals breaking our rules and attack those that call them out- ask Rachel

Let’s look at the bigger picture and anticipate what is going to happen, rather than get frustrated when the inevitable happens. Nationally park services are becoming tougher on who access their land and what they do on it. This isn’t a short term trend and we as climbers must move with the times, but instead we have renegades in our community that break these rules while thinking the authorities won’t notice, like previous generations did. What fools we are.
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The Jimmy
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Re: Redhill/Coppermine access closure

Post by The Jimmy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:32 am

Everyone commenting on this topic pls keep in mind that SANParks etc check in on this site also, so pls consider before posting something that can't be undone

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Not
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Re: Redhill/Coppermine access closure

Post by Not » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:30 am

As I said in my earlier post. I am not actually inciting anyone to anything. I think it is essential that we discuss our options. Not knowing that something is an option is the surest way to make sure you don't make truly informed decisions. I have not gone to Coppermine since the ban was announced and at present have no desire to defy TMNP. I KNOW TMNP read the forum and I think they ought to know that we are frustrated. I think that good suggestions have already been posted by Warren and I must commend the MCSA access sub-comm on fine work done in general.

I would also like to point out that other forms of Civil Disobedience exist beyond going to the area and climbing there. The one I have in mind is actually quite far from it. I suggest that we prevent other users from accessing the park. Particularly cyclists and horse riders. We can do it without ever setting foot on park land and can make it well known in the public arena that we are being unfairly treated. If there is indeed an environmental impact plan in place for horse riding it doesn't seem to prevent the massive damage of the Coppermine area by those users.

I think that what frustrates me the most about the situation is that it harms the rule following good guy over the rule breaking maverick. As long as the community decides we should stay out I will. Thus I lose access to the area. Other people sneak in and have their climb in banned areas (perhaps not this one - I don't know) - they keep their access and in fact benefit by having fewer other climbers to contend with.

Out of interest: I really like Warren's long term outlook. Has it been considered by those putting together the EIMP?

Once again - thank you to everyone who is trying to rectify the situation. I'm sorry if you feel my comments were to the detriment of the community - that was not the idea - I simple want us to talk about the issues. Education is key!
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deadmuppet
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Re: Redhill/Coppermine access closure

Post by deadmuppet » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Regardless of what you think of TMNP, please respect the time and effort the MCSA and other volunteers have put in to keep the discussion open. It sounds like it is still friendly at the moment, let's try keep it that way.

and +1 to Rachel for standing up the other day.

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Justin
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Justin » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:52 pm

A page opposed to the ban placed on boulderer's climbing in Redhill. Pls support this cause to get back our beloved Redhill! The more likes the better...

:arrow: Petition against the ban on bouldering at Redhill
Attachments
open_rehill_bouldering.jpg
Redhill
open_rehill_bouldering.jpg (113.41 KiB) Viewed 7725 times
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Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:19 am

To all climbers concerned about the Redhill Bouldering Ban, kindly note that the MCSA is addressing this issue. It is critical that we talk to Table Mountain National Park (TMNP) as a fully representative body, therefore this is not limited to MCSA members and everyone is welcome to be involved in this process. As you can imagine, TMNP cannot make agreements with individuals or with bodies that only represent a small number of people. In the end you will be bound by the agreement that we reach, so if you feel strongly and would like to get involved, please contact me directly. We urge that you do not rock the boat at this time while we are working with TMNP on this issue as it will only put undue strain on the relationship between TMNP and climbers during these collaborations. We understand your frustrations but ask that you please respect the process and trust that we have TMNP and your best interest at heart. Your support is greatly appreciated.

MCSA Rock Climbing Sub-Committee

wasatchgirl
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by wasatchgirl » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:30 am

Can I suggest that the MCSA talk to the bouldering community directly? We have lost solidarity on this cause but very few boulderers are going to post up why on the forum. I understand that anyone can go to Redhill, but in actuality there are only 50 boulderers in the Western Cape and 30 that go out weekly. Perhaps it would be of great use to the MCSA to simply email these 30 people to ask 1) why many of them have given up on the cause 2) ask for suggestions on how to move forward 3) ask if any boulderers want to continue to fight the fight? All regular boulderers have signed the last page of the EMP. If the MCSA is interested I can easily source the emails.

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:59 am

Hi Rachel

That would be a fantastic idea. Please can you email me and let me know all the contact details for those 30-50 boulderers. I think it would be great for us all to band together and work as one. Boulderers have been going to these areas since the 60s I believe so TMNP not allowing us to climb there now is a shock to our systems. I am all for protecting the environment and climbing in it so the more information we all have on this area, the better and the easier it will be to work with TMNP in protecting it while we climb there.

wasatchgirl
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by wasatchgirl » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 am

Delaney, can you please reference the EMP and let me know which email addresses you need? When us boulderers wrote the EMP we listed all the boulderers as such and everyone else as climbers. Email my personal email addy with what you need.

Another thing to look into is Paul Robinson's trip. He has a trip planned to South Africa again next year in order to make another video. Last year his video made quite a few of the local boulderers a bit cranky. Perhaps his sponsors can help push the cause to completion before he arrives this year? Not sure... just an idea to possibly look into.

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:19 am

Thanks Rach. Will email you shortly.

Darryn
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Darryn » Wed May 02, 2012 5:07 pm

This is all too much for me, im gonna go shave my hairy arm pits so that when red-hill does re-open, im ready...

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XMod
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by XMod » Thu May 03, 2012 1:40 pm

Sorry to add a negative voice but this is so tragically typical of TMNP (and officialdom in SA in general). 50+ years of free and unhindered access wiped away by some Johnny come lately official?? Its pathetically lame, even more lame is the seeming inability of the (so-called) 'representative' bodies, that claim to champion the cause of climbers, to rectify the situation (c'mon this has been dragging on for how long now?).

I would have thought a 50yr history of access constitutes a right of way? Surely that creates a strong legal footing to simply have the ban overturned?? First the boulder garden, now Redhill, our playgrounds are slowly been whittled away. How long before they decide to close down Topside etc.?

I moved to the deep south specifically to be near these rocks, now Im told I cant go there anymore? -Still! Im sure there are many others in this position.

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Thu May 03, 2012 2:17 pm

Not only do I understand your frustrations but I share them too. I am a boulderer too.

I sincerely hope you don't box the MCSA in with the "seeming inability of (so called) representative bodies".

A step-by-step plan has been actioned. Meetings have and are taking place and a new document is being worked on. The aim is to push this forward in the next 4-6 weeks and a meeting with TMNP will ensue shortly after that. Unless you have worked on an EMP or EIA or similar document before, you may not realise how much information is involved and how time-consuming writing a document like this can be.

Please understand that times change, impact on an environment can sometimes only be seen/felt years later. I understand your attitude but please also realise that you do not have all the facts, and negativity can be a dangerous and destructive thing.

I don't expect you to hold out any hope or have any faith based on what happened with the Redhill EMP and am simply letting you know that MCSA is on this and will continue to work with TMNP to the benefit of all.

Warren G
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Warren G » Thu May 03, 2012 3:23 pm

I second Delaney's sentiments, but add one thing:

Don't bite the hand that is feeding you, even if sometimes the hand looks idle it could be sourcing food that is harder to secure. the other cliche here is "help me, help you!"
Sandbagging is a dirty game

Guy
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Guy » Thu May 03, 2012 4:48 pm

Hey Greg (Gri-Gri / XMod)

You clearly feel very strongly about the "seeming inability of (so called) representative bodies", so why not offer your services and join this particular ineffective body and make it more effective. I'll happily step aside and go on with the rest of my life.

Cheers

Guy
There's no point being pessimistic, because it probably won't work

Andy Davies
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Andy Davies » Thu May 03, 2012 6:00 pm

Greg you're being a real chop. All the people trying to sort out access for Redhill are volunteers with real jobs and families (= limited time). So instead of criticizing them, rather offer to help. A lot of back room work has gone into this.

Guy, Rachel, Delaney et al please keep going - we love you to bits :thumleft:
AndyDavies

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Wed May 23, 2012 12:51 pm

To all boulderers:

A complete draft of the Bouldering EMP in Table Mountain National Parks, including appendices, has been submitted to significant representatives of the MCSA for final appraisal.

Once this draft has been approved, a meeting will be set up with SANParks/TMNP and the EMP delivered to them for review. This meeting is hopefully taking place in June but no date has yet been confirmed.

Thank you for your patience and support and trust that we are doing all that we can as quickly as we can to have this issue resolved and Red Hill open to bouldering once again.

Tx
Delaney

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Wed May 23, 2012 1:05 pm

Wow, thanks guys and girls for all the effort, it really is appreciated
Happy climbing
Nic

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gregkriel
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by gregkriel » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:14 am

Any more developments? The frustrations are really starting mount now. It has been over a year now and I've noticed more and more people saying screw it we going while I remain to respect the wishes and stay away. This being said I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this as well as much as I don't want the interfere with the process it seems as if the process is futile (As much as I I chose to not believe this). Action is going to be taken i'm sure pretty soon but a few and maybe many, I'm, hoping it doesn't get to this. There anti ban boulder page on FB has received a lot of support and I think it might be time to bring the press into it and public interference might be the only way forward. I do know some reporters that maybe be happy to help run a few articles on the this. pls let me know your thoughts and remember those of you that get up in arms and are mad defensive for the slightest thing with quick tongues, this is a friendly and concerned post so don't get your panties in a knot pls!

GREG
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:05 am

Hi All

This has no means become dead in the water, so to speak. We recently received a full report from TMNP on why they rejected the Red Hill EMP. We are working through each issue and are busy doing our own rebuttal assessment report. This involves the person who originally created the paths in the Red Hill area for hiking purposes, other boulderers who are familiar with the area, MCSA GenCom, Access Com and Rock Com. We are moving on this and if I didn't have a full time job and other issues I am working on such as the Bosch Crag Re-opening Proposal, then I would be able to get the assessment done a lot faster.

Greg, I appreciate your offer for the media and I am keeping this on our list so that we may be able to bring it in as and when appropriate. However, I would very much like to meet with you and chat about the exact steps and options that would involve the media and how it would be beneficial. Let me know when you have time?

Again, any boulderers who know Red Hill well and would be able to accompany me on an assessment of the area for the sole purpose of confirming or negating the assessment made by TMNP would be greatly appreciated. I have asked two boulderers but their schedules are pretty tight. Please let me know who would be available to help and kindly note that I am looking for boulderers who know the area VERY well. If you can assist, please email me directly on delaney@rockchicks.co.za.

The sooner we are able to complete our assessment report, the better for everyone.

I know this is frustrating and I know some of you may be giving up hope on this issue and are losing or have lost faith in the MCSA and TMNP but please be assured that we are doing all that we can as fast we can while also trying to maintain our paying jobs.

I look forward to receiving some emails from you guys and gals :-)

Delaney
on behalf of the MCSA Rock Climbing SubCom.

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MargheritaIntrona
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by MargheritaIntrona » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:19 am

Delaney, you and all those that have worked so hard on this, totally ROCK! Thank you :thumleft:

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Geoffrey
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Geoffrey » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:26 pm


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dirktalma
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by dirktalma » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:07 pm

I wonder if they're being ignorant or clueless? If someone (Marijus) has Paul's contact details, just let him know about the access issues

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:29 am

Hi Boulderers

I just wanted to let you know where the MCSA is currently with the re-opening of Red Hill.

We have finalised our response to TMNP's assessment and Gencom has approved everything.

Andy and I are now trying to get a meeting with Gavin Bell firstly so that I can introduce myself and secondly to start working on a solution or the next phase, whatever that may be.

Thank you again for your patience and I will keep you all informed as we progress.

Chris F
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Chris F » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:48 pm

How much of this is at Redhill, and therefore banned? Maybe a word to their sponsors is needed as this is unacceptable.

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:18 am

I did try get hold of Paul Robinson but got no reply :-( It seems they are no longer at Red Hill so hopefully no more damage will be done.

If anyone has a direct contact number for Paul, I would greatly appreciate it.

Delaney
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Delaney » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:47 pm

Hi all

Myself and Andy Davies met with SANP on behalf of the MCSA to discuss the bouldering access issues at Redhill on Monday. It would seem that the access issue is bigger than Redhill and SANP have concerns with bouldering on the whole of TMNP. So please can you join us on Tuesday 7th August at 6pm at MCSA Club House, Hatfield Street so we can provide feedback.

Thanks so much
Delaney

immortality
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by immortality » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:20 pm

There like a bear!! Let's make it a good turnout!!!

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Justin
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Justin » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:35 pm

Bump :alien:
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Chris F
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Re: re-opening of Redhill?

Post by Chris F » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:28 am

Any outcome?

The MCSA has lifted its self-imposed Moratorium on Redhill areas Coppermine and Grootkop only. Easter Island is still off limits due to the sensitivity of the environment around it.
See more info here --> Redhill Moratorium Lifted

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