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 Post subject: The Proteas Youth Team
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
All the best to team SA.

But the question has to be asked. The SA Youth Team, the first "National" climbing team ever to be recognized by SAFCOC, seems to have representatives from just two provinces in South Africa. Why?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:36 pm 
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it wasnt a bouldering event :lol:

eT


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:59 pm 
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SNORT wrote:
But the question has to be asked. The SA Youth Team, the first "National" climbing team ever to be recognized by SAFCOC, seems to have representatives from just two provinces in South Africa. Why?


Our cricket and rugby teams are also from relatively few provinces - if the best (or only) players are from one province, its still a national team.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:12 pm 
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SNORT wrote:
All the best to team SA.

But the question has to be asked. The SA Youth Team, the first "National" climbing team ever to be recognized by SAFCOC, seems to have representatives from just two provinces in South Africa. Why?


They have a problem in SA Fencing where the national selectors are biased towards the fencers from their province, even though they arent necessarily the best. Maybe have a look at who the selectors are... just saying....


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Wes wrote:
They have a problem in SA Fencing where the national selectors are biased towards the fencers from their province, even though they arent necessarily the best. Maybe have a look at who the selectors are... just saying....


I think the last time a SASCOC accredited wargames team had a non-Gauteng player was 2008. Admittedly no KZN or Western Cape players bothered to go to team trials since 2008. Many of SA's top players are from KZN and didn't feel like paying their way to go to team trials and worlds. Wargames might be the only SASCOC accredited sport where there is a lack of sponsorship to such a degree that you have to pay for your own Protea colour shirts :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:41 am 
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SNORT wrote:
But the question has to be asked. The SA Youth Team, the first "National" climbing team ever to be recognized by SAFCOC, seems to have representatives from just two provinces in South Africa. Why?

I'm lead to believe that it's largely a function of who actually participates in the selection competitions. Are you suggesting that there's a clandestine scheme to exclude climbers from certain provinces!??

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:07 am 
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No representation from freestate or the northern cape!!! How is that possible?!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:56 am 
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Yeah why!?? It's not fair! Everyone should have equal representation. Maybe it's time for a quota system.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:32 pm 
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What Scott said.

The selection comps are open to the whole country but the pattern seems to be that the GP kids come and maybe a handful of KZN kids. Mostly it is a cost issue (travel, accommodation, etc.). It's not like the selection committee only selects kids from a certain province. It is that they only have so many kids in the selection pool.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Hmm, whilst some of the comments above are going off on a bit of a tangent, does anyone know what actually happened? The Web site is a bit unfriendly (or I am looking in the wrong place) and I could not even find a mention of how the SA team have done - only mentions of the top performers / highlights etc which was not from team SA.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
I have no idea how the team got selected. I merely observed the origins of the members of the team.

I do not claim to be totally in tune with everything to do with climbing in South Africa, but I do keep my ear to the ground and the selection of a "national" team would be significant news in my social and climbing circle. The first time I heard about a Protea climbing team was after the team was announced. This is very concerning to me.

Implicit in selecting a "national" team is that the team is selected on merit from all South Africa. I know of at least one lad in the Western Cape who is right now one of the best rock climbers in South Africa (trad and sport) never mind that he is a youth and still at school. He is well known and his name frequently appears on this web site. Was he granted the opportunity to join the squad?

SAFCOC has awarded national colours to this team. And I doubt if this could possibly have happened without representation to them that the team was selected on merit from the whole country. Was this done? What were the criteria for selection?

This is not 8a.nu! Or membership of a private club.

I am afraid that if the selection was not done on merit with at least a reasonable attempt at giving an opportunity to be selected to all our best young climbers then all credibility will be lost and this would be last time any climbing team ever wears the Protea colours again. It is not as if the better climbers around the country are unknown.

I invite anyone who knows anything about this to please provide some answers.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Eish Snort, were you not the one who always carries on about trad, risk & adventure +++...& the essence of climbing. This is an indoor comp. Perhaps the lightie you are referring to is humming your tune. Big up to him!

The Eastern Cape is fully represented in the Protea team by those who are interested enough to attend the various events & comps. Ja, nobody here is interested enough. So nobody is squealing. Clearly.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:25 am 
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I just spoke to the mother of a girl from the Western Cape who was invited, but for various logistical reasons was not able to attend.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:33 am 
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Before everyone starts knocking the selection process publicly, it might be worth finding out how it operates and how far indoor competition climbing has come in a short time through the efforts of SANCF.
They have just managed to get SASCOC recognition, by having sufficient representation from around the country. While I hope that this can grow quickly, it can only happen by the effort of the individual clubs around the country. At this stage it seems that only Gauteng and KZN (and a few from EC i think) are making it to Nationals, how can you expect there to be representation in the SA team from other provinces, when they don't compete nationally?
Selections is based on performance at the regional and national competitions, as well as a selection comp that was held earlier in the year. Those that are involved in the indoor climbing clubs around the country should have been aware of this process.
We do need to have more involvement from other provinces, but this will only come from a proactive effort from those in the school climbing scene. Lets hope that we see more representation at next year Nationals (there's still time this year I guess), and perhaps the next SA team will comprise a "fair" number of kaapies.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:57 am 
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anybody know how the team did?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:29 pm 
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https://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php ... ompetition
The results are at this page...
As expected, the team finished mostly at the bottom of their age-groups. SA has a long way to go to compete at these levels.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
Snort, so to update you on what is happening and happened in your home province:

In April WP hosted its provincial comp, which was our selections for our team. Alas not everyone that we would like to have seen was there, but we had about 30 athletes (by comparison the weekend before we had our adults comp and 4 people showed up). We then invited those that did well to come to a local gym for training, and us the committee have been coaching the kids to both improve their skills and to see if they are genuinely up to scratch for nationals. Currently there is some attrition in this regard, which will whittle down our team to about a handful of youth.

It would have been great to see everyone we hoped to see at those events, but life isn't that simple, however it would also be unfair to arbitrarily send a team based on whether we think they are good or not without seeing some motivation from their sides displayed in the form of their attendance. For those youth who you think could do well I encourage you to motivate their entry at next years provincial comp and their abilities can be evaluated accordingly. As was stated previously, the national competition is a two horse race with other provinces nowhere to be seen because they haven't installed their own infrastructure in the form of competitions etc. We are working hard to change this down here and would welcome help from the climbing community, yourselves included.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Snort - I still remember you coming to Dbn for a Rockmaster wearing khaki pants and no doubt a Whillans harness!

For all interested in the background to school climbing in KZN: It started with the 1st Comp held at Monteseel in 1990, with 30 climbers from about 4 schools. Except for the ones from Stanger (the little town North of Ballito surrounded by sugar cane), all the rest had links to climbing through relatives already involved in climbing.

In 1991, and up to now, there has been a regular league, initially 4 events a year, held on school and the varsity climbing walls. In recent years,a separate bouldering league was introduced.

The high point of inter-school climbing (despite what is thought by many) was in about 1998-2000 when there were at least 8 schools strongly represented, all of which had their own walls, as well as individuals from schools where climbing was not recognized as a sport. This included 3 schools from PMB, and one from the Midlands. The usual number of competitors was between 100 - 120 on average. For many years, no other province could compare.

Kloof High School was the epicenter of the league, and was run almost exclusively by an enthusiastic group of loyal parents and climbers who had previously participated and were keen to put something back. Kloof High School has the longest history of climbing in KZN, continuing even when there was no teacher or parent who climbed themselves.

It is a pity that fewer schools are now involved, and in terms of numbers there has been a slow decline. With climbing now being acknowledged by SAFCOC, I expect there will be new incentives for climbers and numbers will increase. Massive credit must be given to those who have worked so hard to achieve this. I also believe however that if development of climbing in schools is focused solely on competitions, it will suffer constant lag. Opportunities to climb outside and have 'adventures" will attract more kids, create a larger pool of climbers, and thus a greater reservoir of talent. Similarly, competitions should retain an element of fun, and allow a kid to finish the day with a sense of achievement of getting up some routes, and not being shut down at every route geared for harder climbers. Attrition of climbers during the league is largely as a result of this. Route setters are faced with great challenges, but also have responsibilities.

Climbing faces the same challenges of many minor sports, and it will be interesting to see where we go from here.


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