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 Post subject: Peninsula muggings
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:40 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Why don't the police get in touch with the cellular providers and track the stolen cellphones (immediately after they stolen)?

Alternatively, sew/place a tracking device into a bag (other item) and follow the signal.
Is there a good reason this won't work / cannot be done?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:14 pm 
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Location: pretoria
um um um um um um um well
well from my experiance yes and no and no

1. ok the robbers/muggers take out the sim imedialty after the phone has been stolen soo now the service provider cannot track the phone from the number any more.

2. if the simm is till in and the phone is on they can put u in a radius of about 10 meters or so (it might be bigger or smaller) [and the problem with this is that certain eareas are very crowded so they wont know where to start]

3. U can make use of the IEM number each celphone has one and can be tracked acordingly (when ever the phone is on) this brings some more interesting problems into play. The cops are too lazy to do this cause it is a mission. U need to know ur IEM number. With a bit of know how this numbercan be changed etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

i standto be corrected on a lot of these thing cause i havent looked into it in ages and a cpl of things might have changed since then


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:41 pm 
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Location: Western Cape
You'd think that by now the police would've tried to do something/anything remotely pro-active...instead of closing Tafelberg rd and Lions Head after dark... (haven't heard of any muggings after sunset???)

I've heard a rumour that there is a group of vigilantes on the mountain in certain areas, wearing military fatigues, carrying 2 way radios and well armed. Anyone else heard anything?

For my part, I'm going to start carrying a bottle of cheap scotch \"doctored\" with as much Rattex, etc, etc as I can lay my hands on. Then hope I get mugged... ;-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:58 pm 
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yep, I saw some heavily armed guys on patrol near Mutant Snail, Topside the last time i was there.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Yeah, agreed. They would have done this already if they could/cared. Maybe the mountain should be closed during the day, until the problem goes away :roll:

I haven't heard anything about vigilantes.

In the mean time I'll be spending time with my dog in the mountains!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:42 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
It is really sad that the thugs have now taken over the mountain as well. So now instead of enjoying a carefree day of hiking or in my case climbing on one of the most amazing pieces of rock in the country I now have to look over my shoulder all the time. The newspapers seem to forget that it is not just tourists who make use of the mountain......

Something has got to be done but the question is \"What?\" I believe a volunteer patroll group has been established but will they be able to cover the entire area? And what powers will the have if and when suspicious people are spotted.

I will how ever keep on climbing on Table Mountain and all the other climbing spots in the area.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:23 pm 
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Don't take sh#t from these muggers. Make sure you have a few mates with you and arm yourselves. Machettes, clubs, bats whatever... Most of these muggers are a bunch of laaities who couldn't defend themselves anyway. When confronted, come out guns blazing and beat the crap out of them. They need to know that we are not soft targets and must think twice about who they want to mugg. They are not scared of the cops and dont care if they get caught but they must think twice about who they intend to mugg... :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:34 am 
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jeanpant

let's be rational before we go frow them wif a rok.

Being all vigilante may feel cool, but you'll probably just encourage the muggers to be more violent next time. And that next time means involves the whole climbing (and hiking and tourist) community, not just yourself.

The only thing worse than violence-free crime is violent crime. I don't want laaities on the mountain who shoot first and ask questions later - do you?

This isn't an argument to do nothing. But let's support a collective, sensible effort - and not spontaneous individual vigilantism.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:09 am 
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Babycoat
:roll:

Vigilante groups are not what i suggested. I said, if you can, go climbing in a group and make some form of effrot to protect yourself and don't just stand back and be mugged. Your agrument about turning relatively non-violent crime more violent by simply being resilient and not just giving into criminals, is absolutely rubish. If you have been paying any attention to what's been going on around you over the past 5 years, you will have noticed a alarmingly increase in voilent crime in almost all sectors of society. They only way people have managed to somewhat secure themselves against this comlpete lawlessness is by adding armed gaurds, armed response etc. Get it? If you don't take a hard line against criminals they will come back for more and with more force every time. Fighting fire with fire is the only response that has proven sucessfull in S.A. There won't allways be someone to look after you and those who are suppose to, don't realy care too much anyway.

So please wake up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:10 am 
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Jeanpant,
I'm wtith you on this one!
I frequent Newlands a lot and after all the mugging stories I've got proactive, and always have a panga at the ready! The handle sticks out the back of my crashpad for quick access... there's no way they're taking MY stuff without a fight!
The problem is: If I do wack off a hand, I'll probably be the one going to jail? That probably explains way we have this mess in the first place...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:12 am 
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Quote:
If you don't take a hard line against criminals they will come back for more and with more force every time

Agreed. Just trying to discuss what line to take.

Climb in groups, be resilient, carry fewer desirable items - all obvious responses.

But, given the \"alarmingly increase in voilent crime\" do you deny even the possibility that \"[coming] out guns blazing and [beating] the crap out of them\" will lead to an escalation of violence withing the parks?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:05 pm 
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Real Name: Guy Holwill
Once again we have people with loads of passion shouting on an internet forum - but common sense says that ranting here will achieve nothing. The question is: Who is actually prepared to do something about the problem?

A couple of months ago, SANP held a public meeting about crime in TMNP (only 3 climbers actually bothered to pitch up)! At that meeting SANP explained how concerned they are - but they also indicated the difficulties of actually catching people on a mountain.

Obviously they won't give away their strategy in a public meeting (the muggers could be there). But it became obvious (to me) that the only way to actually catch people is with a sting operation (like they did successfully on Noordhoek beach a couple of years ago). The problem is that the muggers keep moving, and it's bloody difficult to organise 10 cops hiding behind a bush on every part of the mountain at the same time. They are also much further down the line with things like cell phone tracking etc than you'd think.

At the meeting, the people who had the most to contribute formed a \"committee\" to feed suggestions to SANP (SANP were very open to this).

If you really want to do something (other than rant here), then I suggest that you contact the committee through Greg Mosely (he can be contacted through the MCSA in Cape Town).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Make TM safer:
www.3poles.co.za/maketablemountainsafe/index.php
&
MCSA AGM Meeting:
\"Please don't forget the AGM of the Cape Town Section of the MCSA to be held this Friday 30 March at 8:00 pm. It is of particular relevance this year in view of the on-going security crisis affecting the Table Mountain Range.\"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:28 pm 
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No one was ranting. There was a pro-active solution here: \"Start by taking care of yourself and worry about the rest later\" because this is the most the general public can do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:39 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
Hi Jean

Just a thought...

The world will become a very sad place when we all adopt the \"look out for number one and fvck the rest of you\" approach.

The point of my post is that there are people who are trying to solve the problem for everyone. Why don't you offer to help?

Personally I don't have the time, but I'm still trying (in a lame way) to do something constructive.

Ciao

Guy

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 Post subject: Solutions
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:08 pm 
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A subject as emotive as this one is bound to bring forth heated opinion.
My problem with the apparent strategy is that it is aimed at acting *after* the event. This is too late; it is far too difficult to apprehend these thugs when they have the entire mountain on which to hide.
Also, there appears to be the usual SA approach of forcing crime in to other areas (this is why attacks are now occurring in the southern sections of the Park).

Guy is quite right: a 'sting' type of operation is what is required to catch these guys.
Of course, personally I am fully in favour of posting a photograph of their bullet-riddled corpses on the front page of the Times with the headline: \"this is what happens when you go mugging decent folks\". But in our PC times, this isn't likely to happen.

So, are we likely to see the authorities agree to a 'sting' strategy? I can't see it happening without a fight. I for one will lobby strongly for this. The more that do so the better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Came across a girl from the States last week who said she had been up in Boven. We were bouldering and there were a few people around, at pretty much the same time everyone asked \"so did you get mugged?\" :)

The Cape is becoming a bit like what Boven (touch wood here) used to be like... so when you get mugged down south...

This is the emregency number to call: 0861-106-417 remember to hide you cellphone on your person :!:

There is also a meeting tonight regarding saftey in the Cape mountains -
See - http://www.climb.co.za/news_detail.asp?newsid=611

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Location: JHB
I think the table mountain management or tourism or something should organise plain clothes cops / security to pose as hikers and arrest a couple of guys (like the suggested sting) these cops / security should go \"hiking\" on a random basis every now and then. This should create enough uncertainty in the muggers minds to stop them from focussing on the mountain and \"unarmed\" hikers (risk of being caught will be to high).

While we are at it - shouldnt goverment bring back military service? this means that the general public become clued up enough to protect and defend themselves (effectively you increase your potential police force to the countries population) and instil (spelling?) morallity, principle and possibly pride in the people of our country.

Your may think that we will also be training criminals but they already have the necessary on the job training - some food for thought


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