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 Post subject: Sports routes on TM?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:29 am 
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Are there any sports routes on Table Mountain?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:04 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
There are no sport routes on TM. The mountain has always been a dedicated trad climbing area. TM is also now a national monument.
However bolts have been placed on the mountain for commercial purposes (Abseil Africa) and as rap anchors for climbers to descend quickly (and avoid the long walk around).
The bolting was done by professionals and with permission from the relevant authorities

Bottom line: No bolting allowed on TM 8)

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 Post subject: Is this True?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Justin I heard that some of the trad climbs on table mountain have some bolts on them in places where some people thought it was too dangerous not to have a bolt. Is it true that there are some illegal bolts on some trad routes on Table Mountain?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Not that I am aware of.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Pitons have been used to protect trad routes... but I have never (thankfully!) seen a bolt on a route on TM!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:17 pm 
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Real Name: Guy Holwill
Some climbing bolts have been placed on TM (Africa and Fountain ledges). Boltergeist had a bolt in the 70's - I think it was placed by Mike Scott (Mike, please don't hate me if I'm wrong about that). Cookoo's Nest also has a bolt (I have no idea who placed this).

And then there is the route that I was supposed to have bolted (one bloke even told me directly that he'd seen me doing it). The mind boggles.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:18 pm 
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So are we saying that it is more acceptable to whack in pitons than to place bolts?

If that is the case, I am sure there will be routes with \"ladders\" of pitons being put up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:52 pm 
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TM should be covered in bolts.
I climb a bit of trad but would be far happier clipping nice shiny bolts high up on the mountain. Classics like Jacobs Ladder should be bolted first. I would be more then happy to fund this and do the hard work. These routes should be heavily bolted to make them safe (every 2 - 3m) for visiting tourists.

Remember that there is a huge cable car and power lines running up the mountain so don't give me any of that enviromental crap. :twisted:

And forget the old story of preserving the lines for the next generation of climbers. Screw them, what have they ever done for me?


Last edited by Rastaman on Fri May 04, 2007 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Quote:
So are we saying that it is more acceptable to whack in pitons than to place bolts?

If that is the case, I am sure there will be routes with \"ladders\" of pitons being put up.


No. TM is so perfect for trad and the placements are excellent. the pins that are there are in extreme cases where the route is hard and there is no gear to place. But, that said, a lot of the routes on TM were even climbed before cams, so you can generally climb it very safely with bomber nut placements.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:08 pm 
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Guy is correct that I placed the first bolt on a TM Trad route, ie on Boltergeist. It was for protection and NOT AID. The aid was a Bat hook move on a wrinkle on an overhanging section with a break your back fall on a ledge if you came off. It was a tiny Stubai bolt, placed with a hand drill, the same type as I placed on Oscillation. Greg Lacy and Brian Gross made the second ascent specifically to go and chop my bolt as a protest. I told them that I wondered if they would have been so brave to lead the bat hook move without the good piton in the rail above that you can quickly clip before the hook wobbles off. Nobody does this pitch on Boltergeist now and the pitch of Escalator is used instead.

The second placement of bolts was by Dave McCrindle and Gordon Morton opening Clockwork Orange. Those old bolts with home made hangers were still there last time I looked, on the wall between Gauntlet and Hard Times. One of the bolts is mentioned in Leonard Rust's Africa Ledge guidebook.

Subsequent to these placements, was the incident when Niel Antoncich got arrested for bolting on Lion's head, and climber's became aware that the authorities were not going to allow permanent anchors, unless you were the Cableway Company or Abseil Africa apparently.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:52 am 
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Mike what was Greg Lacy and Brian Gross response to your question if they would be so brave to climb the route without the bolts there.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:30 am 
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Dear Drifter,
I recall Greg said \"That's what hooking is all about\" or words to that effect when I told him chopping the bolt would make the hook move extremely precarious and dangerous.
Incidentally, I should have mentioned that Lion's Head has a few \"Sports routes\" ie bolted, plus there were some bolts for protection on Alec McKirdy's Scratch Arete. That is probably why poor Niel was misled into thinking LH was allowed.

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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Thanks Mr. Scott for that feedback.


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 Post subject: bLots
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Don't feed the trolls, people :)

It should be mentioned here that it is not permitted for people to simply head out and bolt, anywhere in the TM National Park. Yup, not even sport crags. For the latter, there is a protocol for bolting of new routes at *some* sport venues. This is all laid out in detail in the Sport Climbing Management plan, which was drawn up between climbers and Park management, and co-ordinated by the MCSA.
This seems to have worked well over the past few years, with lots of new routes going up, and even a few new climbing areas too.

Which of course makes one even more annoyed at what the Cableway company is allowed to get away with... but that's another (distasteful) story altogether...


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 Post subject: Oscillation
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:43 pm 
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Hey Mike - my cousin Dave made me lead Oscillation and I shat myself leading up off that dodgy old bolt of yours :shock: Problem is if it falls out you will probably deck and it would be a tad ugly. So the question is, is the dodgy bolt part of the experience or is it acceptable to replace it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:41 pm 
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Hi Andy,
I had intended to replace the minimal Stubai bolt on Oscillation with a proper glue in some years back already. However all the issues with CNC and SAN parks about bolting/access etc put a hold on that plan, and in the interim I have been hearing that leaders find micro placements they are prepared to trust, Personally I think that adds a danger dimension to the pitch that may result in a nasty accident one day, and I would still be happy to see someone put in a proper bolt, subject to them following the guidelines Brent refer to. The reason I say this is that the Stubai bolt is very short and thin and was never meant as pro, but as direct aid only, especially as it is only partially in and at a bit of an angle. This happened because Don Hartley tried to hand drill the hole while standing on Keth Fletcher's shoulders while he was tied onto an ace of spades piton in the dead crack.
Regards,
Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:41 pm 
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Re. Oscillation, with the new micro cams available (3CU's etc) there is actually quite acceptable pro a little below the bolt now.
Re. TM sport routes, does anyone know of the actual existence of the \"route\", claimed by one who has since moved to the East, between Fountain Chimney and Black Patch? I have often imagined that I can see at least one of the bolts he claims to have placed.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:23 pm 
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Hi Richard,
Are you referring to the tiered recess ending in a short blank section below an overlap which was apparently almost climbed by Richard Smithers and Brian de Villiers? They used aid to try to get get through but I can't recall if they completed the climb. I also vaguely remember hearing that someone had subsequently had a go at it, so would also love to find out what happened.
Regards,
Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:42 pm 
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Hi Mike
I know the line you refer to. The line in question supposedly tackles the steeper wall further right. The one with a series of stepped overhangs on grey, lichenous rock. Steep enough for a sport route. The naughty gentleman, whom you know quite well, claims he bolted it during a howling south-easter, to drown out the sounds of the howling demons of Bosch! :)


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