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 Post subject: Southern Ropes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 522
I went to Ropeworld today because they are around the corner from where I work and I wanted to see if they got the climbing rope they told me they were going to start selling for R19 a meter.

They have a southern full length rope which is a dynamic rope selling for R18.50 a meter, you can buy any length you want. The owner told me he climbs with this rope.

The shop also sells Beal half ropes. I didn't price them though.

I don't care where you buy your ropes from I just thought I would pass on the information in case anyone is interested going to investigate for themselves.


Last edited by Drifter on Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:38 pm
Posts: 92
Real Name: Leon Nel
serious !
esih, but can't I buy a nice beal rope for R90 more.

thanks for the info troller. ag I mean Drifter. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:39 pm 
I do not have a vested interest in the fishing business but I do sometimes go fishing with my friend. We dont have a boat we just stand next to the sea so is that also trolling? If I run up and down along the beach is it better than to stand still?

What are your opinions?

The owner says he climb with that rope but not the one in the shop it was one other one the same type but it was green and the one in the shop was blue.


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 Post subject: I never said the above
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:31 pm 
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I don't care where you buy your rope from however the rope I saw at ropeworld was the rope the owner says he climbs with. It streches by 30%. I don't think there is anything wrong with climbing with a full southern rope in sports climbing. I am not trying to tell anyone what rope to buy though I won't dismiss this rope until there real evidence to do so. I have met someone who climbs with the rope and they say it is fine for sports climbing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 9:06 am
Posts: 196
Location: Cape Town
Dude do the maths.
R19 x 60m = R1140
Why not buy a well known brand for roughly the same price?
I bought a mammut flash for around R1300. (Through Climb.za)
My buddy bought a roca for around R900. (Mountain Mail Order).

Both are great ropes made for dynamic lead sport climbing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:22 am 
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Posts: 522
The argument to support Southern ropes climbing rope is that it is locally produced climbing rope which creates jobs locally.

I don't mind what climbing rope people buy, I don't support one rope manufacturer over another however I don't think it is right to criticize any rope manufacturers rope or any climbing manufacturers products without being able to produce real evidence that the product did not work correctly under the correct conditions its meant to work.

If a brand is well known it doesn't necessarily mean it is better than a brand that is not so well known.

A Southern ropes climbing rope costs R18.50 a meter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:03 am
Posts: 166
Location: da Big Red baboon in magalies
If its evidence you want Drifter; I got it!!!!
I got 2 Highly experienced climbers/riggers/Mountain Rescuers as witnesses and video footage to prove it!

Screw Southern ropes :!:

Go Beal!!!
screw southern!!
go beal


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 178
Location: Cape Town
Beal ropes are actually pretty crap ... when compared to Mamut or Edelrid


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:49 am 
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Posts: 522
Fanta have you used Southern ropes full climbing rope for sports climbing?

Have you taken a fall on a sports climbing route using Southern ropes full climbing rope?

Can you e-mail me the film footage to fellowpassenger@hotmail.com or tell me where I can view it?

Fanta do you have a vested interest in Beal ropes? Are you involved with any of the climbing shops or any of the rope manufacturers?

I myself have no vested interested in ropes manufacturers, climbing shops or the climbing industry at all. I don't care what rope people buy I think everyone should go around and investigate everything for themselves and decide for themselves, however when people start ditching other peoples product on this website I get suspicious what there motives are. I find it very hard to believe that any rope manufacturer would state they produce a rock climbing rope for sports climbing if it is not safe to use the rope for sports climbing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:34 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Under my bed
Drifter wrote:
I went to Ropeworld today because they are around the corner from where I work
...around the corner from where you work? So you go there a lot?
Drifter wrote:
I wanted to see if they got the climbing rope they told me they were going to start selling for R19 a meter.
Hang out there so much you're up-to-date with product launches?
Drifter wrote:
Are you involved with any of the climbing shops or any of the rope manufacturers?

Drifter wrote:
The owner told me he climbs with this rope.

Drifter wrote:
I have met someone who climbs with the rope and they say it is fine for sports climbing.
someone = owner? Well then he definitely doesn't have ANY vested interest there, nosiree. BTW, do you have your whole head up your ass or just up to your ears?
Drifter wrote:
I don't think there is anything wrong with climbing with a full southern rope in sports climbing.
So have you? If not, stop trying to punt some product you don't have experience with, ok?
Drifter wrote:
I don't mind what climbing rope people buy
and no-one minds what you say.
Drifter wrote:
I don't think it is right to criticize...blah blah blah.
you don't think full stop.

GET. A. CLUE.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:49 pm
Posts: 293
Drifter:Image

Dont forget to tell us all about what you see there!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 763
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
fanta wrote:
If its evidence you want Drifter; I got it!!!!
I got 2 Highly experienced climbers/riggers/Mountain Rescuers as witnesses and video footage to prove it!

Screw Southern ropes :!:

Go Beal!!!
screw southern!!
go beal



Hi Fanta

Could you please give me some more details, the footage etc, if you can. We have just bought some Southern Ropes for our Mountain Rescue to evaluate them, and would appreciate any beta you can give us. You can contact me off list at: nicholaslemaitre@gmail.com

thanks
Nic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 522
I haven't taken the owner of rope worlds word for it nosmo.

I said I don't have an vested interest I never said the person who sells the rope doesn't have an vested interest in the rope.

Ropeworld though never tried to say to me though that it is the best rope in the world.

I am still waiting for the evidence that Southern Ropes full climbing rope for sports climbing is no good for sports climbing.


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 Post subject: F U C K Drifter to hell
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 236
Drifter is like a disease that has infected this entire forum and is destroying it. I hate reading his bullsh*t all the time. He has no knowledge and talks in circles to annoy people. He has bastardised almost every post on this forum and I've actually stopped coming here or wanting to post anything because it actually makes me sick to have to tolerate such a runt to society. Drifter, if you actually even ARE a climber, I hope your rope snaps. You need to be banned from this site because you have NOTHING TO ADD EVER! I, as Guest, might make many an annoying statement, however, you'll notice that I only post were my opinion is relevant. You are just a tired, boring loser whith no life who sits all day with his hand in his pants trying to p!ss people off.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 522
I have not seen any evidence which proves that there is anything wrong with any rope manufacturers climbing rope.


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 Post subject: I agree
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:42 am 
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Posts: 19
I agree with Drifter on this one. What makes beal, mammut and Eldrid so better. Any body? Developement .... and you brand conscious know it alls, are so worried about what your mates at the crag will say if you dont pitch up with a Blue Waters or an Eldrid that local development gets over looked. Take off the blinkers and help promote local product development. If you dont like the rope, thats fine, at least let the manufacturer know why and what could be done to improve it. After all they are striving to create the best rope anyway. It makes sense. Think about it.
Take it easy


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 Post subject: Re: I agree
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 106
Location: PTA
Steroids wrote:
I agree with Drifter on this one. What makes beal, mammut and Eldrid so better. Any body? Developement .... and you brand conscious know it alls, are so worried about what your mates at the crag will say if you dont pitch up with a Blue Waters or an Eldrid that local development gets over looked. Take off the blinkers and help promote local product development. If you dont like the rope, thats fine, at least let the manufacturer know why and what could be done to improve it. After all they are striving to create the best rope anyway. It makes sense. Think about it.
Take it easy


Steriods,

Agree with you on some points but consider this, buying a rope is a big investment for most people, would you spend your hard earned cash on something that is untested in the market place when you can spend maybe R90-R140 more and get a proven/trusted brand that isnt going to give you any hassles?

If southern Ropes wants to prove its stuff it should be priced much more competitively and they should be actively trying to engage the climbing community's interest by sponsoring ropes as prizes,having their ropes in the gyms or doing something so that we as climbers can test them without having to outlay big bucks and possibly sitting with a duff rope.

the argument that Drifter poses that we as Saffas must blindly support locally produced stuff is cr*p, we will in the end support the product that is the best value for money and best suited to our needs..this isnt charity!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 522
mkboy wrote \"sponsoring ropes as prizes\"

People don't need top climbers to tell them if a product is good or not. People can think and invistigate for themselves.

Why would a respectable rope manufactrer make a full climbing rope for sports climbing and say that the rope is for sport climbing if it is not safe to use it for this? Are they not worried about liability and their reputation?

mkboy are you in marketing?

If everything is outsources it will effect everyone because the crime will go up as unemployed people will have to steal to survive. There is a selfish reason to support local products and services and that is so that the unemployment doesn't go up and therefore crime such as theft doesn't go up.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 106
Location: PTA
Drifter wrote:
mkboy wrote "sponsoring ropes as prizes"

People don't need top climbers to tell them if a product is good or not. People can think and invistigate for themselves.

Why would a respectable rope manufactrer make a full climbing rope for sports climbing and say that the rope is for sport climbing if it is not safe to use it for this? Are they not worried about liability and their reputation?

mkboy are you in marketing?

If everything is outsources it will effect everyone because the crime will go up as unemployed people will have to steal to survive. There is a selfish reason to support local products and services and that is so that the unemployment doesn't go up and therefore crime such as theft doesn't go up.


...not even going to bother to reply to all your thoughts, to much effort and time wasted...please will you read what you wrote, try to really THINK about what drivel it is and insert it back into the orifice from whence it came...i.e. YOUR ARSE!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 2980
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
When I purchase climbing gear (in particular a climbing rope) I look out for the CE & UIAA certifications.

From Justropes.com:
\"All (*Brand*) ropes are CE-certified and meet the standards EN 892 or EN 1891. Climbing ropes come up to the even higher demands of the UIAA standards (see sheath slippage).
The CE-certification is based on an external control through an official, independent test institute. Production controls together with the control of incoming and outgoing products guarantee a complete quality check. (*Brand*) is an ISO 9001: 2000 certified company\".


So now we have choices of local and foreign made ropes. Main factors that will make people choose a rope:
- Price
- Rope manfacturer (brand loyalty)
- Safety standards

The Dynamic rope manufactured by Sourthern ropes is certified to SABS standards. However I have no idea what those standards are and I'm sure that this is the first dynamic climbing rope they have certified. Nor do I completely know what the UIAA/CE standards are but I know that they have been testing ropes for a few decades now and they are tried and tested.
For me personally, I will only climb with a rope that has been certified by the UIAA/CE. I'm not looking to discredit Southern Ropes, I am simply taking caution (let the buyer beware).

Perhaps Sourthern Ropes might have their rope certified by the UIAA/CE?

This is my personal view on the matter.

This is a link to the UIAA Safety labels page explaining in brief what tests are done and how to obtain a safety label.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drifter this is a link to Globalisation

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 Post subject: Youu are right
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 19
Southern Ropes has signed Vice climbing gear on (which is our brand) to develop their ropes so as to meet the markets requirements. And all I can tell you is that what ever you THINK you know about Southern Ropes, believe me you dont. We have made huge improvements to their ropes.
All Vice/Southern ropes have been SABS tested to the European CE 892 standard. I have subsequently found out that the SABS CE 892 standard is equivalent to the UIAA 101 standard for dynamic climbing ropes.
So that should answer any of those questions asked about safety.
As for the \"marketing side\", dont mean to put this in the posting Justin but I thought it would fly this once( I know the rules of the forum), but Vice Climbing Gear is looking to sponsor ropes and other gear as prizes in comps to help get the local climbers to see that local is as good if not better.
That is why Im so adamant about supporting local initiatives, as in the end, the consumer wins with a better, cheaper, locally made product.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 178
Location: Cape Town
i dont know much about the specifics of rope manufacture but i have tried both beal and mamut ropes. I find that beal ropes are not us tightly wound as mamut, they feel softer. Beal ropes dont last as long, they get worn quicker and my last beal had flat spots after 2 months of climbing. My mamut on the other hand i have had for a year and is hardly showing any signs of wear except looking a little dirty. Apart from all the agreement i get from other experienced climbers about how much better than beal a mamut is, i can tell from my own experience that is a better made rope. I will never buy beal again...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 178
Location: Cape Town
i might be wrong in saying this but ... if Southern Ropes doesnt advertise or promote their ropes as climbing ropes then they are probably not made for climbing. I havent seen any southern rope ads in climbing mags ... maybe i just missed them


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:03 am
Posts: 166
Location: da Big Red baboon in magalies
@ roid

Local is lakka man!!!
I eat Ouma rusks an even go as far as Mrs balls's amazing chutney! However I'd be mortified to buy a box of my favorite buttermilk rusks; only to find that its full of her crap muslie rusks instead. Nowthat would just spoil my cup of coffee. Now ask yrself just how do u think my nuts feel? (sorry for the lingo justin)

WHEN: a rope from Southern Ropes that is labelled as a dynamic and even have the thin blue fleck in the rope to mark it as dynamic;
not streatch like a dynamic should?

Just a question I would like an answer to?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:50 pm 
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Posts: 293
After twenty years of clmbing and owning all kinds of ropes the most durable have proven to be Mammut and Sterling. Ya local is lekker but Id rather fork out a bit more for something thats gonna last a few years and not blow out in the first six months.

The question Id like answered is (Justin) when are we gonna see an 'ignore' button on the forum so we tune out the noise we dont feel like hearing? Guest; youre right this Drifter character is a disease. I WANT IMMUNISATION!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 522
Big claims, no evidence produced to prove any rope manufacturers climbing rope is bad.


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 Post subject: Undertanable
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:55 am 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 19
I like Mrs Ball and the Ouma just as much as the next person, and I understand that people stick with what works.
It is understandable that you guys feel the way you do, But let me assure you that it will not be long until you are converted. The time and development we have invested to improve not only the ropes but also our other gear has produced some pretty awesome stuff.
Hold your reservations for now but stay open minded.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:15 am
Posts: 18
Location: Pretoria
Hi everyone

Fanta has alluded to having evidence that Southern Rope dynamic ropes might not perform as we would expect a dynamic rope to perform. He cites an incident where he took a fall on an Southern Rope dynamic and wasn't happy with the results.

Here's the background:
In november last year we (FANTA, myself and several others) were working on a movie shoot and FANTA was testing a stunt. He was required to take a small fall (about 3m) on a top rope with about 20m of rope out (fall-factor 3/20). He was wearing a full-body harness with a dorsal attachment point and was attached to two Southern Rope dynamic ropes - one primary, one backup. Both devices were Petzl Stop.

He took the fall and promptly started whingeing about the impact force. We put it down to him being soft, to the fact that full-body harnesses and dorsal attachment points do create a perceived harder impact, to the fact that we were using two ropes and not one, and to the fact that a Stop doesn't slip and therefore gives harder impact force (but then neither does a Gri-Gri when used properly).

So... we made him do it again with a lot of slack in the backup rope.

More whingeing.

After lots of debate and discussion we eventually took the Southern Rope dynamic rope out and did a static body-weight hang with it (my weight, and I'm not light), then did an identical test but with a Southern Rope static rope. There was almost no difference in stretch, despite the fact that we had about 40m of rope out.

The rope in question was a ± 3 year-old but unused (still on the reel) Southern Rope dynamic. As far as I know the company we were working for sent it back to the manufacturer.

There's the citation. Saying \"I was there\" sounds corny but I was. I've tried my best to give all the facts.

Does this mean that Southern Rope ropes are all bad? Not necessarily.

I'm quite sure that any rope manufacturer who's serious about their product would sit up and take notice if a rope was returned to them for poor performance. I'm sure that Southern Rope will have tested the returned specimen and have taken corrective action, if they hadn't already changed the rope's design in the intervening years since the rope was bought.

Finally, someone mentioned that the SABS EN 892 standard is the same is the UIAA 101 standard.

It isn't.

The SABS EN 892 standard is a direct adoption of the EN 892 standard. UIAA 101 is the same as EN 892 with additional requirements re: rope colouring, etc.

If anyone wants to see what tests a rope is subjected to for qualification (both static and dynamic), look at the very interesting and very useful technical publication on the LANEX site.

regards

Rob

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 Post subject: Correction
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:15 am
Posts: 18
Location: Pretoria
Hi

Earlier I said that the difference between UIAA101 and EN892 was colouring and marking. I was wrong - it seems it's sheath-slippage.
See http://www.uiaa.ch/web.test/visual/Safe ... 7-2004.pdf for more.

Regards

Rob

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 4
As Drifter correctly stated myself and some other climbers have been using the Southern Ropes dynamic rope a number of times and to date no problems.
I have been in contact with the supplier Southern to advise them of the negative views on their rope. They will make 50 m available to the most fierce critic to test. The rope has been subject to SABS testing and is certified.
For the record we also stock Beal ropes so it is not a question of favouring Southern but it does come at pretty good price and is sold in lengths other than 50 or 60 meters
Contact me at Rope World to arrange a test rather than just critizising


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