Hi Mark,
Clearly you have some issues, and I'm sorry for you. I was not trying to get a reaction. I was merely stating a point of fact. My post was the same, I have climbed many of the hard routes since I have been here in your country and I feel the grades are a lot softer than most of the hard routes I've done in other parts of the world.

It's sad that you all felt the need to attack me before conversing about this matter. I get a lot of aggression from people in South Africa and there is very little respect for people's opinions here. In general, you SA males have a lot of anger in you. I just climb for fun, I'm not an 8a website member and I dont need to run around proving myself to random people.

Also, I keep being referred to as Guest and Johhny Knoxville? who are these people? I take it they are forum members? well, I am not them, so please stop and think about what you want to say to people before you just attack.

@Magnus, thanks for the reply. I must say that I do agree with you about Red Rocks, although some of the routes are pretty tough too.

oh, and what's wrong with driving an Uno? I'm only here for three months and I really dont see the point of buying a new SUV for this. Especially when your vehicle prices in SA are through the roof.

Anyway, have a great weekend climbing everyone. Hope you all send your best.

Darren

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\"What one leads on-sight, in good, strong style, safely, is what one's ability is.\" - Pat Ament.

Long live the Uno!!

My little tjorrie has taken me everywhere I've wanted to be (even halfway up the 4x4 track up to the Mine...b'lieve it or not!) . Plans now in progress to reinforce the chassis and install Emu shocks and big knobbly tyres, and soup-up the 998cc engine a little bit ..... to take me places I'm gonna wanna be!

Cederberg traffic, eat my dust!!

8a: I think you're Johnny because you write just like him. Phrases like \"SA males\" and \"Clearly you have some issues, and I'm sorry for you\" are basically copy & pastes from Johnny's posts. Your attitude of everything outside SA being better also reeks of Knoxville.

Let's assume you're not one of them, for the sake of argument.

If you pose questions the way you did in the poll, where people who do not agree with your viewpoint are made out to have sub-standard standards, you'll get the heated reaction you got, everytime. You essentially said \"Yes, do it my way\" or \"No, we're not as good as you\". What about the guys who can climb those routes (and harder) and disagree with you?

Your attitude with regards to the making McDonalds comment is plain inflamatory. Looking down upon our country just because you don't see your shops here is plain dumb. I guess it just feels better if you can eat the same crap in different countries? Makes you feel a bit safer perhaps.

You'll note that most of the reactions came as a result of your demeaning attitude towards SA and our people, not the question about the grades. When you then slap on a layer of niceness as an afterthought to make it look as if you're for real it's really lost in the bigger picture - it seems about as sincere as me signing off with \"Kind regards\".

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Live fast, die young & leave a good looking corpse

PS: The name calling from my side was uncalled for, so I'll apologise again.

It was made in reaction to your post in reply to Gustav stating something along the lines of (pity I did not quote at the time) \"is it because you're afrikaans that you think it's ok to wear the same helmet for climbing and mountain biking.\" You quickly edited out that bit, though, didn't you? As they say, you dragged me down to your level and beat me with experience.

Next time I'll leave the keyboard alone and come boer-slap you, I'm sure it'll be more satisfying.

On that note, I'm of to go drink some margeritas. May the sauce be with you.

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Live fast, die young & leave a good looking corpse

Yeah I would have to agree with 8a, there is a lot of under grading going on world wide.
Just the other day I was in Rifle warming up on Fortress of Solitude (5.14d) it should really be down graded to a 5.14b. I then left the Rockies for New England (thank God for all the McD's along the way - \"One taste to rule them all\") to try my hand at some of the famous Rumney routes. I was utterly dissapointed, The Fly and Livin Astroglide were both kind of easy, also more like 5.14b's and most definately not 5.14d's. Governor Lynch was even kind enough to come to belay me, but being in New Hampshire and all - you know the whole \"Live Free or Die\", I decided to free solo the two routes without my helmet.

I don't even think I will enter the rock rally this year, those routes are just way to easy. I just don't get all those foreign wankers who come out to Boven to climb routes like Snap Dragon and Lotters Desire and then comment on how great these routes are without saying anything about the softness of the grades. Dumb foreigners.

I plan to move on to more challenging climbs, next week I'll takle some african thorn trees, or boulder a rhino in labour.

Vok die VSA

LMFAO.

In my experience most yanks are nice people (having hitch-hiked to Yosemite etc) and met "real" ones. Only the ones with enough money to travel and blinkered outlook are a PITA.

Die man is blykbaar 'n opreg doos.

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\"When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you\". - Oom Nietzsche

Im busted, yes I have worn my bicycle helmet, on a trad route or two. As an engineer I agree it’s not as good as a climbing helmet, but stil wil absorb the falling loose rocks or even absorb the shock load of splam mother earth against the scull. (Yes only when nothing else is available) What’s the point anyway? O yes I am a boertjie! Sorry way over my head. I am not a trendy climber…. There where days when people improvised, now it’s about the latest and greatest and most expensive gear. Stuff That! The 8a Dude is correct lets over grade the routes because Americans are brain washed and cant think any more, just like they sue for millions over a to hot cup of Mc Donalds coffee. Au my lips are burnt……bollox!!!!

I agree that the upfront poll set the inflamatory tone of this thread.
Hmm, not the first time I've seen this brazen approach to foreign policy

FYI: I thought Rumney and the Gunks were in line with Boven. As a general rule, I've found the older a crag/area the more sandbagged. I think there was more bravado/false modesty in those days.

Darren you are obviously a good vert climber. Most ppl find Boven harder than other areas in SA (E.G. Oudtshoorn, Durban and Cape Town)

Interesting tag line about enlightenment. Not sure I want to be \"enlightened\"...

i don't get why you guys are so easily inflamed...... so now it is okay to write stupid generalised derogatory comments about americans because one guy took a dim view of countries that does not sell bigmacs. just weird.

madiba would pat 8a on his head and give him a lollipop whilst encouraging him have respect for others. just a thought.

I used to be pro America, then I spent some time with an American.

I enjoy the bulk of Americans I meet (including my girlfriend). Unfortunately lee vate maak die meeste geraas...

I quite enjoy the slender Americans... but, whatever floats yer boat!

*groan*

Okay, it's early... humour's still covered with sleepy cobwebs. Time to lighten up this soon to be too touchy thread though.

Haha! Touche!

Dear Ms/Mr 8A

I have read the discussion about downgrading Boven climbs and have giggled a lot. I assume all of the replies and answers in the forum have been in jest, as in my 2 years of climbing I haven't really encountered many bitchy climbers.

1.) A bit of advice please: what does 8A stand for?
2.) It seems as if the assumption is that one can climb 2 grades higher if you eat MacDonalds regularly.
I'm a strict vegetarian and am working 17s - is there hope for me?


Mar

Veg eater

Indeed, it has been a wonderful thread. I'm sure all replies were in jest. Who could miss such splendidly articulated sarcasm (if this word is the most apposite (?) Hmm.)

As to vegetarianism, healthy eating /living, I can attest first-hand to its strength reducing mechanism. From 'poor weak little animals' to 'poor weak little arms' is a short step indeed (Did I just use 'indeed' again? Oh my, where has my aesthetic taste disappeared to?). And what if, as in the Johnny Dawes’ anecdote, a little ladybird appears on the crux hold? What vegetarian would be able to summon the aggression for the crux and ladybird murder? And here lies the rub. Vegetarianism surely changes the mind and levels of aggression, competitiveness, drive etc. I recall redpoints happening after marvelous long nights spent supping on beef-burgers, quaffing that wonderful cultivar (Tassenberg R14 a bottle) and inhaling splendidly inspiring bong hits (Durban Poison – R10 a bag) , and then washed away with multiple cups of black coffee in the morning.

Oh for ill-health once again...

But what if the lady bird has a knife wielding accomplice demanding your wallet?

JonoJ: If you happen to find a stray slender American, I'd like to test & hopefully enjoy too. PS: If it's not too much too ask, brunette, +- 1.70m would be terrific. Must be able to belay / be willing to learn. Climbing optional, but preferred. If she boulders, please post a pic on that thread.

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Live fast, die young & leave a good looking corpse

8A? Good question.

It is a new advertising campaign from MacDonalds that have not hit SA yet - slang for \"ate a lot\".

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Gustav
Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
rocrope dot com

....excellent reply Gustav!!

Mar, 8A is simply a grade....

SA males have a lot of agression in them? Yes we do. So what? If you have a problem with it, go somewhere else.

Maybe it are just in our gene.

jeanpant wrote:
SA males have a lot of agression in them? Yes we do.


Maybe it are in our gene and in owa pant also

A quote from the Founder of McDonalds taken off the net.

\"I was 52 years old. I had diabetes and incipient arthritis. I had lost my gall bladder and most of my thyroid gland in earlier campaigns, but I was convinced that the best was ahead of me.\" - Ray Kroc

Jeez, he sounds like one of those hard core old school climbers, or was all that from eating McDonalds.

Long live the Boerewors Roll!

Wow, this has been entertaining once again... So Mr. America put himself on the line, and he's hanging out to dry!

Its not what you said but the manner in which you did, that 'in your face' confidence, which is justifiable if you sent Jabberwocky sooo easily. Well done!
Just add a bit more tact, and you wouldn't be crucified...

I had the privilege to get on all the routes you mentioned, just a week ago, you’re right some are soft. Let’s make a fair trade; I'll give you Lotters Desire 27 and Jabberwocky 32, if you leave Monster and Snapdragon... I’m sure most of the Forum would be happy with that, if they have ever been on the above mentioned!

Jammer bra, jy is net nie goed met nie woorde nie!
Awe, Arjan de Kock

Agree on Lotter's softness (27 is fair, but still an awesome route) and reckon Snapdragon can stay at 29 ( up a sidgeon from it's original grade of old skool sandbag 28 ), but I heard that Monster is actually kinda soft for 29 and in desperate need of a downgrade...

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You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.

Hi everyone, these are all great replys. I'm sorry to all that were offended by my McDonalds comment. It was meant to show what a vacuum the climbers in SA must have been in the early 90's and before this.

I agree with PaulB regarding the eating meat thing. Us humans are not designed to only survive on veg & fruit. If you dont eat meat, you'll not be getting enough protein, which will probably be the reason why most of you guys who have replied to this thread, have most likely never done any of these routes I mentioned.

Gustav, you joke made me laugh. It's nice to see some people have a sense of humor still.

oOdball, have you climbed any of these routes you are giving your opinion on, or are you just speculating? Also, was it you who said the other day that Stormwatch should go down to 27?

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\"What one leads on-sight, in good, strong style, safely, is what one's ability is.\" - Pat Ament.

No I have not. Some of my friends have tried these routes and they said so. I'm probably the last person you should be asking for advice on anything!
At the moment, I'm working at doing as many 18's as I can. Mostly at waterval boven. I reckon you should give Monster a try as it looks really hard, but still, it should be a 28 and even possibly a 27. I agree with 8a about downgrading boven. Gustav?

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Silly games. I've been around since 2006, and what's wrong with toproping 16's anyway?

I am the original intergalactic champion. Fear me o<zero>dball!!

Hahahahha!! I've been spoofed

Well done o<zero>dball, you've given me a good laugh Now run along and find something more constructive to do with your nimble little brain...

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You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.

My 2c. I didn't find Lotters 2 grades different to Snap. I think fit people might ignore the pump aspect... I'd give Lotters 28 and SnapD 29.

I thought Jack of all trades was solid at 30.

Since we are being serious again. My take on some Boven grades, if anyone gives a shit:

Jabberwocky: 32 (I'm not even sure the moves warrant this grade (but it is very thin at the crux). It's just big and intimidating.

Labrat: Clinton's vicious creation. Solid 32. The hardest moves in Boven.

God of small things: Got onto it quite weak and it felt doable. But I don't think it is easier than 32.

Strata & Frazzle: The two open-projects I did. Frazzle is a one move wonder. If you can do the move the route will feel soft. Strata is similiar but a litel more sustained. Thinking back to the useless edging shoes I used on the redpoint it might be easier than 32! hehehehe.

Snapdragon: A experienced brit climber told me he thought it was solid 8a. 29 is the right grade I think.

Lotters Desire: 27. With a bit of experience face climbing, it is just two 25 type moves spaced by rests and easy but technical climbing.

Monster: the opposite. no hard moves but sustained. Hard to tell on an onsight. It certainly felt like I climbed and read it better than any onsight in a while (but then the moves aren't that complicated). 28 or 29. For the ego-massage I'd love it to be 29.

p.s. To continue the grade obsession:

Steve, Faye walked Lotters in two or three attempts but was a long way off Snapdragon.