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 Post subject: Finger Trouble
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:21 pm 
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My ring finger popped (ligament damaged) about 4 weeks ago, I was pulling on an indoor crimper with full body weight when it popped like a knuckle. I am growing impatient at the fact that after 4 weeks of resting it remains swollen and pains when I make a fist. Even light tasks remind me of the injury. Could it be inflamed???? Or is that the painfully slow process of healing. Somehow I think something is not right. Any comment/advise? :x :x


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Location: Port Elizabeth
Don’t make the mistake of thinking you can simply tape it up and carry on climbing. I strongly recommend that you take a break for a few more weeks, and then limit climbing to the outdoors until it is fully healed. Indoor climbing is murder on you joints!!

Also, an ice bath after climbing has magical powers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:07 pm 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Sorry to hear about your finger Eric

You may find some useful info at - climbinginjuries.com

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 Post subject: !!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:02 am 
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Hey Eric, sorry to hear about your injury. Happend to me a few years ago.
It took about 3 month before I could START climbing again probably almost 6 month to regain full strength.

I found in the initial stages puting my hand in a bowl of warm water and just contracting and releasing the finger helped with inflamation and pain. I was also constantly exercising the finger under light load. I remember at first I couldn't press the little knobby on my handbrake with finger. But I would put a little pressure on it to start, after a few weeks I could depress the knobby and then a few weeks further started doing \"reps\" pressing it. So find your self something to exercise your finger on, very light tension to start with. Keep on moving the joint.

Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:14 pm 
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hey Eric

Sorry to hear about that. dooooooon't cliiiiiiimb!!!!

I did a similar thing about 4 years ago, and it never came right.
I probably could have rested it more than I did.

a physio said to massage it every now and then, but it was already beyond repair. I never got back into good climbing fitness after that.

I climb with it taped up now, but i still feel the burn when i push it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:53 am 
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Thanks for the sympathy, seems there is no quick or easy way. I will have to start playing golf……3 to 5 months will feel like a lifetime without climbing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:42 am 
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Recently snapped my pully (you can here it quite clearly on the video through the howling wind). I thought I would be out for 6 months or so, but it seems to be healing well, definitely not well enough for climbing though. The hot-cold routine, massaging and open and closing of the hand does help. Treat it like a newborn, don't climb too soon, and when you do, no crimps, and it should heal nicely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:45 am 
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go onto www.davemacleod.com and look under the articles section.there is good info about pulley tears etc and a good video showing you how you can speed up the recovery time by increasing the blood flow to your fingers.stopping climbing completly for 3-5 months could be the wrong thing to do cos you need to strengthen the injured finger and break down the scar tissue(open handed climbing once inflamation has gone).i injured my right ring finger in april and its still not fully healed but can feel its slowly getting better.then went and did the same thing to other hand in october.dont waste your money going to a specialist,they're useless and have no clue about climbing injuries.he told me to rest for 2 weeks and i would be good to go.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:49 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Injuries to the A2 ligaments, or 'pulleys' are fairly common, especially with male climbers. I have suffered with several, and they are not nice. The worst of them had me out of climbing for about eight weeks.

They can vary in severity, depending on the extend of the damage. The tissues are poorly vascularised, and thus heal comparatively slowly. Do not climb on it, especially in the initial weeks after injury.

Seeing a physio who has experience treating climbing injuries is recommended (especially if you have medical aid). There are several physio's around who are highly experienced climbers themselves, and will be able to advise/treat you.

It's not all doom and gloom: you will climb again, just treat the injury properly, and have patience. Lots of patience.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:25 am 
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a couple of years ago I got into the habit of popping pulleys every 6 months or so, in terms of treatment, the hot cold treatment along with massaging and gently flexing the finger def helps, I also used traumeel gel and after the hot cold treatment would massage it into the the injured finger, it really seemed to help.
Then in terms of prevention, I read an article by neil gresham (i think), in which he specifies how best to warm up your fingers, (flicking them and stretching them), since reading the article I warm up my fingers before each session and have had no injuries since (touch wood), try track down the article, i think its on planetfear.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:33 am 
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Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
here is a link to the article that you are referring to:
Neil Gresham's Guide to Warming Up

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Real Name: Paul P
Thanks for the link!


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 Post subject: Finger injury
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Betty's Bay
Any injury deserves the ice or rice treatment protcol...

REST ... ICE... COMPRESSION... ELEVATION.

This is for most soft tissue inflamation.
Rest duration is determined by the servity of trama inflicted. You should know by the type of pain experienced and the inflamation thereafter...

Injury to a finger... ring finger in this case... for 'compression' strap the finger over the injured 'pulley' and then along with the little finger. Strap the medial and pointer alongside together. Separate the motor skill therefore offering support and dual strength for healthy joints whilst the injuried is slowly healing.

After your session remove strapping add to RICE with passive movement, and then active... massage and drain finger... palm and forearm. then ICE for 8 min... (do not apply ice direct rather drop your hand in iced water... inflamed finger first... allow the cold to cause vascular constriction and slowly... 1 cm each minute until palm if fully submergered).

Listen to your body... if there is pain... it has not healed... RICE it!

Cuan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:53 am 
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Not all of this advice is going to be helpful in getting you back into climbing. I recommend swift and painful amputation of the offending digit. Preferably with something serrated that requires a bit of a sawing motion, as opposed to a mini-guillotine which really just removes the fun. Video it and put the video on youtube. Send the finger to an ex-girlfriend.

OK, from personal experience, the best way of dealing with pulley injuries is a combination of:
- Active rest (take 1 - 2 weeks off, but make sure that that rest is spent doing things like running or cycling or whatever as they raise circulation levels and thus stimulate healing - probably not a lot, but better than nothing and you don't turn into a fat git).
- Going climbing. This may sound counter-intuitive, but after a rest of a week or two, tape up and go climbing. As long as it doesn't hurt, it will stimulate healing in quite a big way. I've found that 3 - 4 sessions, carefully making sure that I don't aggravate the injury, normally clears up an injury.

What I've found doesn't work is:
- Long periods of rest. 2 weeks is as good as 8 weeks. Actively stimulating healing by climbing sooner rather than later is far better.
- Physios. They really tend to know nothing about climbing-specific injuries. Rather spend the money on beer.
- Icing and warming cycles and things like Traumeel gel. I know Myself swears by them, but they've never seemed to make any real difference.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm not a physio. It may be easier to just quit climbing and take up something less dangerous (bath-house towelboy?) and save yourself the frustration.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:15 am 
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Dom, lets be specific, the hot cold treatment traumeel gel thing doesn't work for YOU.
It was recommended to me by another climber, who found it really helped, and that, along with running, climbing on jugs for a bit, etc, I was back bouldering 7b ish consistently and snatching first ascents of your projects within 6 weeks :-)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:05 am 
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myself wrote:
Dom, lets be specific, the hot cold treatment traumeel gel thing doesn't work for YOU.
It was recommended to me by another climber, who found it really helped, and that, along with running, climbing on jugs for a bit, etc, I was back bouldering 7b ish consistently and snatching first ascents of your projects within 6 weeks :-)


Note how I was careful to reference the fact that you found that it worked and that I didn't. However, I would expect a pseudo-journalist to mis-read that. And a ginger too.

And you may have snatched a project of mine or two, but at least I don't live in joburg.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:49 am 
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Like I said, be specific, \"What I've found doesn't work\" might imply experience beyond the personal, whereas if you had stated \"What I've found doesn't work for me\", personal experience is implied...aaah semantics, but I would expect a pseudo IT geek to assume meaning where there is none, must be the pseudo journalist in me.

The Joburg thing, yup I do have to live here, but I've travelled to more countries in the last year than you have in your entire life, and a day in any of those countries is generally more interesting than a day bouldering (even if its not a very good kind of interesting, like getting arrested in Zim) and then there's the 30 days leave thing which is kinda cool, even if I struggle to actually take it.

and lastly, I may be ginger, but at least I don't have a hairy back, which after reading this, might be up, which might encourage you to online research things like semantics, journalism, IT geek, Zimbabwe, ginger and hairy backs, but I have work to do so I'll leave this argument here.

PS. at last count it was a lot more than 1 or 2 stolen projects


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:14 am 
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dom wrote:
..
from personal experience
..
What I've found doesn't work is:
..
Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm not a physio.
..


As far as I am concerned, the above make it abundantly clear that this is based on *my* experience and refer directly to what I have found has worked and not worked for me. In fact, I referenced the fact that you swore by Traumeel gel (placebo effect anyone?) and stated that I had found that it had no real positive effect for me.

I'm entirely comfortable with things like semantics - a chapter of my Masters thesis (for which I received a distinction) involved semantic analysis. Not that you'd know much about higher education - isn't TV journalism more of a diploma-type course?

Re: my back - I can shave, but you will always be a ginger and will never have a soul.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:08 pm 
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dom, my honours degree in Journalism, along with my degree in English might stand me in better stead than your thesis chapter on semantics.

your post reads that from \"personal experience, the best way of dealing with pulley injuries is a combination of:
- Active rest (blah blah blah).
- Going climbing.

Because there is no line spacing between the \"personal experience\" heading and the following two points, one can assume that they are a single idea

You then start a new paragraph, which implies new idea, related to the overall topic but different to preceeding paragraph, of which the \"from personal experience\" was a part. Using the same format as the preceeding paragraph, you give this paragraph the heading \"What I've found doesn't work\".

Your use of the 'paragraphs with headings' format implies that the third paragraph is not based on the heading of the second paragraph (the \"personal experience\" heading), but rather, and correctly so, on the heading you have given the second paragraph (the \"What I've found doesn't work\" heading). One thus assumes that the third paragraph is no longer based on your personal experience.

See my previous post regarding your over arching statement of \"What I've found doesn't work\"

Regarding your \"placebo\" comment, it might be true, but you and the rest of the old James' House bouldering reprobates have commented several times on my ability to heal remarkably quickly.

Regarding my lack of a soul, isn't the soul a religious concept, and aren't you a 'fundamentalist atheist'?

Finally, you can shave your back hair, but it will just grow back thicker than ever


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:29 am 
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myself wrote:
dom, my honours degree in Journalism, along with my degree in English might stand me in better stead than your thesis chapter on semantics.

your post reads that from "personal experience, the best way of dealing with pulley injuries is a combination of:
- Active rest (blah blah blah).
- Going climbing.

Because there is no line spacing between the "personal experience" heading and the following two points, one can assume that they are a single idea

You then start a new paragraph, which implies new idea, related to the overall topic but different to preceeding paragraph, of which the "from personal experience" was a part. Using the same format as the preceeding paragraph, you give this paragraph the heading "What I've found doesn't work".

Your use of the 'paragraphs with headings' format implies that the third paragraph is not based on the heading of the second paragraph (the "personal experience" heading), but rather, and correctly so, on the heading you have given the second paragraph (the "What I've found doesn't work" heading). One thus assumes that the third paragraph is no longer based on your personal experience.

See my previous post regarding your over arching statement of "What I've found doesn't work"

Regarding your "placebo" comment, it might be true, but you and the rest of the old James' House bouldering reprobates have commented several times on my ability to heal remarkably quickly.



All I can hear is blah blah blah. John Pilger would be so proud of you for banging on that rusty drum of "I'm a journalist I know better than you". Clearly television does rot your brain.

myself wrote:

Regarding my lack of a soul, isn't the soul a religious concept, and aren't you a 'fundamentalist atheist'?

Finally, you can shave your back hair, but it will just grow back thicker than ever


The soul is a metaphysical concept. The idea that gingers do not have souls is an internet meme. But there's obviously a good reason why gingers are viewed as a scourge of all that is good and proper, which I think you've proved. I plan on training Ig to attack gingers. Good luck with that one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:46 am 
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Real Name: Niel Mostert
Are you two bored?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:28 am 
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The Jimmy wrote:
Are you two bored?


Do you mind, you're interrupting a conversation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:32 am 
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Real Name: OneDog
I was actually curious too, and I don't mind.

So? Are you?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:41 am 
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Jimmy, for once I agree with dom

dom, the soul may be a metaphysical concept (religion falls within the realm of metaphysics) but again, aren't you a \"fundamentalist atheist\" who firmly believes in evolution and eschews anything vaguely religious and/or metaphysical. To then regurgetate an internet meme that is based on the existence of souls and ginger's lack thereof, goes against your fundamental beliefs. Dawkins would hang his head in shame.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:07 am 
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myself wrote:
dom, the soul may be a metaphysical concept (religion falls within the realm of metaphysics) but again, aren't you a "fundamentalist atheist" who firmly believes in evolution and eschews anything vaguely religious and/or metaphysical. To then regurgetate an internet meme that is based on the existence of souls and ginger's lack thereof, goes against your fundamental beliefs. Dawkins would hang his head in shame.


Firstly, l'll point out that it is "regurgitate". You're not doing much to dispel the myth that TV is responsible for irreversible brain damage.

You keep trolling out the "fundamentalist atheist" carrot (no pun intended, ginger), expecting me to rise to some kind of bait. Religion is a common meme (in fact the most pervasive meme in history) and I certainly believe in it as it's existence can be definitively, if not pleasantly, proved. As such, it provides a handy, if not slightly hypocritical, framework to hang an argument on.

The concept of a soul has gone beyond religion. In fact, it pre-exists the Christian religion. Socrates and Plato argued that it was merely the essence of a person. But it leads to interesting ontological questions along the lines of: if souls don't exist, why are gingers still lesser beings to the rest of us?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am 
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\"Religion is a common meme (in fact the most pervasive meme in history) and I certainly believe in it as it's existence can be definitively, if not pleasantly, proved. As such, it provides a handy, if not slightly hypocritical, framework to hang an argument on.\"

Firstly, I never said you don't believe in religion, I said you eschew it, which means to shun it. You're not doing much to dispel the myth that having a thick browridge is responsible for a lack of mental development.

You base the rest of your argument on your misunderstanding (rendering it null and void), ranting on about how the soul is not soley (pun not intended) a religious concept. I agree that it is not, but even the Plato/Socrates interpretation is metaphysical. Are you saying you believe in the metaphysical?

Fair enough, you might not be rising to the 'atheist' bait, but you are also avoiding the question which is whether or not you believe in the existence of a soul.

As for the notion that gingers might be \"lesser beings to the rest of us?\" Is it not possibly something you cling to when being burnt off your latest project by a ginger? Sounds a little like religion.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:45 am 
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myself wrote:
"Religion is a common meme (in fact the most pervasive meme in history) and I certainly believe in it as it's existence can be definitively, if not pleasantly, proved. As such, it provides a handy, if not slightly hypocritical, framework to hang an argument on."

Firstly, I never said you don't believe in religion, I said you eschew it, which means to shun it. You're not doing much to dispel the myth that having a thick browridge is responsible for a lack of mental development.

You base the rest of your argument on your misunderstanding (rendering it null and void), ranting on about how the soul is not soley (pun not intended) a religious concept. I agree that it is not, but even the Plato/Socrates interpretation is metaphysical. Are you saying you believe in the metaphysical?

Fair enough, you might not be rising to the 'atheist' bait, but you are also avoiding the question which is whether or not you believe in the existence of a soul.


We're devolving to an semantic argument at it's basest level. Maybe I should have been more clear. I do not believe in the soul as a religious artifact, but I do feel that the term "soul" provides a convenient description of the combination of someone's personality/intellect/bearing/etc (you'll not have to think hard at what I'm implying when I say gingers have no soul). I don't believe in it as a metaphysical conceit. As such, it's not really much to believe in, is it?

Oh, and it's "solely".

Beyond that, you made no points. Try again, son - maybe next time you'll avoid posting nothing but rambling ad hominems.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:49 am 
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myself wrote:
As for the notion that gingers might be "lesser beings to the rest of us?" Is it not possibly something you cling to when being burnt off your latest project by a ginger? Sounds a little like religion.


Nice quick edit.

It's nothing like religion - gingers exist. You may climb stronger than me, but I'm comfortable in the fact that I'm not exposed to the deprivations and persecutions that life as a ginger involves.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:11 pm 
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\"We're devolving to an semantic argument at it's basest level.\"

Yup we are, but you are trying to use semantics to avoid either admitting to, or negating your own personal belief in the traditional notion of a soul, (both of which you are reluctant to do because either way I win) I have thus far been obliged to point out the semantic holes in your argument.

\"I do not believe in the soul as a religious artifact, but I do feel that the term \"soul\" provides a convenient description of the combination of someone's personality/intellect/bearing/etc (you'll not have to think hard at what I'm implying when I say gingers have no soul).\"

The semantics continue, Yes, the term \"soul\" can provide a convenient description of the combination of someone's personality/intellect/bearing/etc, but only when used without 'a' or 'the' as a prefix (which generate a different meaning).

You set the prescedent with \"you will always be a ginger and will never have a soul\", you have now changed it to \"gingers have no soul\"

By dropping the 'a' you've changed the meaning of the word and your argument, You've done this because you lost the argument and are now desperately looking for another semantic hole through which to crawl with your dignity intact, after all you did write a chapter on semantics in your thesis

I'm going home now, so we can either continue this next week, or in Cape Town, over lots and lots of beer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:57 pm 
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I'm betting the make-up sex is going to be just great between you two...


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