I am responding to a comment with regard to Stubens, Pizza and ciggs. Strubens is not the only place. I've recently been to Melville Koppies and Norhtcliff. I was shocked to find human faeces lying at the base of the crag (there are times when Mother Nature calls, but I do believe that right thinking individuals will do business elsewhere and out of sight of others and also cover up) at Melville Koppies, a place that I've vowed not to return to again. On Saturday I went out to Northcliff, and another shocker lay in the waiting. Except the fact that Satanic rituals take place, there are broken bottles all over the show and all sorts of waste lying around. At times I take my kids to climbing venues as I enjoy climbing and hopefully they will also enjoy it when they are older. But how do you teach nature conservation and environmental awareness to small kids, when all they see is broken glasses and waste lying around. maybe it is time to turn to international best practices and try and preserve nature and the pleasure of being in nature. I the USA they actually put fences around areas and charge visitors to these areas.