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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:08 pm 
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Location: cape town
Is it common knowledge that \"Sad lament for your Phallus\" (20) and the 19 to the right of it (can't remember the name) at Peers Cave don't have anchors? Is this at all to do the current rebolting process? (sorry, I'm a bit \"agter die klip\")

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:29 pm 
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As far as I am aware Peers Cave is not on the immediate to do list with ARF rebolting. Any info as regards the state of anchors there and elsewhere should be refered on to the ARF guys. Send an e-mail to Ross at: info@skysite.co.za


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:31 pm 
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Location: cape town
Will do. Shot bro.

God bless

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:48 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
Hi guys

Please feel free to add anchors to any of these routes. However, please, please, please think about where the route should end.

I recently rebolted Trials of the Mind - the original anchors were placed in the middle of the crux. The route is now more logical and is at least a grade harder.

I've also replaced the bolts on Amadeus - but haven't placed anchors.

Please give me a call if you are uncertain about any routes 082 2940899.

Cheers

Guy


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:49 pm 
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Location: Durban
Real Name: Russell Warren
I am not the spokeperson for the ARF, but as far as I understand we will get there eventually. If you are going to place anchors it should be glue ins or else the ARF will have to redo it anyway due to the exposure to sea air. Read the ARF link. I know the view has been expressed that only trained people should be placing glue-ins, but my thoughts are that anyone with a bit of sense and the ability to ensure that the hole he or she has drilled is clean can place these anchors. The other way to avoid problems is to arrive at the next ARF project and ask for some training.

I know this is additional expense. If you can't afford it let Ross or Andy know which routes are either in a bad way or non existent (and unsafe)and maybe we can persuade them to do those first.

By the way we could do with some help in removing the old bolts and hangars. The ARF guys will be happy to explain how this is to be done.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:25 pm 
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Peers Cave is a priority for ARF and when I get home we will need to tweak our priorities.

Just a thought - topping out on most of these routes is tricky and is essentially part of the route. Also the top outs are clean. I suggest we don't place lower off anchors, rather only place bolts half a metre back from the top of the climb. This will be better than placing chains for the following reasons:
- the routes were originally climbed with the top-out.
- climbers learn how to top out on routes
- we and walkers don't see a trash heap of chains along the cliff edge (NB NB) - at the moment Peers Cave is an eye sore.
- it will be easier and safer for beginners to set up top ropes
Climbers can lower off long slings and then just clean the slings from the top at the end of the day. Its a pity to see a lot of routes with low anchors which means that we get to miss out on some precious climbing.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
I agree with Andy most of the time. Have look at how I've placed the anchors for Trials of the Mind - the same thing would work for Amadeus etc. This allows you to lower off without leaving slings (or having to carry slings) and to toprope the route.

Most routes at PC are more difficult if you top out. However you want to be VERY careful toping out on the Lemon Curd Boulder - several people have seen snakes on top of the boulder (I even found a 1m long puffadder skin up there)....

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 Post subject: Is that it?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:08 pm 
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OK you lot out there - speak now or forever hold your peace.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:50 pm 
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I like the idea of being able to reach the anchors from above as this makes setting topropes easy and quick (Im often there alone when toprope or solo are the only options). Two lower off rings placed on the lip or immediately below it, within reach from above wherever possible.

Setting the anchors above the lip is problematic as the rock gets damaged by either chains rubbing against the rock (already a problem) or ropes running over it. We can always rig topropes with natural gear for routes where you cant reach the anchors from above.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:06 am 
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More thought. Andy I see your point about keeping things out of sight. Placing anchors on the lip obviously doesnt satisfy this need. My concern with anchors placed well away from the edge is that after people have topped out, what do they do? Untie and walk down? -timeconsuming. Lower themselves back over the edge? -possibly dangerous, some of the routes are pretty undercut? Also if people have to top out, many of the routes will require an extra bolt on the face to keep them safe -not necessarily desirable.

How about a compromise. Where possible place two plain eye or u-bolt anchors 30-40cm back from the edge. This makes them easy to reach from above, and yet people can still reach them from a stance at the very top of the face thus avoiding the situation of what to do once topped out. They would have to use two 60cm slings to rig from the anchors but could still lower off normally once clipped in. This would still force an extra move or two onto most of the routes (when placing draws/slings) as people would have to be firmly established on the lip to reach the anchors, and yet avoid having to place extra bolts to protect a topping out. At the end of a session the slings could be cleared from above, or one could clean on toprope, top out and clean the anchors. The only problem would be the clueless trying to lower as per normal directly from these anchors, which would cause wear on the rock from running ropes. It would have to be made abundantly clear to all how the new system operates to avoid this drawback.

Obviously each route needs to be individually assessed as to whether this would work. It would also be cool if no new routes were bolted on Wards Walk Up / Puppet wall - too many already! Toproping rules!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:34 am 
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I take it you use the drive through at Mac Donalds...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:08 am 
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There is some thing quite pleasant about topping out, belaying from above & walking off with your climbing partner. But I'm not sure that it would be pleasant at Peer's Cave.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:28 am 
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No MacDonalds make terrible food.
Peers is tiny, topping out and scrambling back down would take five times as long as doing one of the routes. The place is often frequented by guides coaching after school groups when time is tight. The place is so consumerised already, its more a case of making whats already there work properly for all user groups.

What we should really be doing is removing all the bolts from all but the steepest of routes (ie leaving only those that are absolutely necessary) at both here and Kalk Bay. Restore the place to its former beauty and go back to toproping (clean eco friendly). Natural anchors are abundant on top at both venues. But I cant imagine that would be a popular solution!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:25 am 
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What about two eyebolts big enough to climb thru at the top of the routes?
Then you dont even have to thred! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Greg if you had read my first post (#6) you wouldn't have to deal with the Mcdonalds abuse.

The most important thing is a line of chains at Peers Cave is and will be ugly - even for a bolt jockey like myself. So what would walkers think and Parks Board think? Remember this isn't our land and do we want to be known as outdoor users who manage our outdoor facilities badly?

Impact as low as reasonably possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:54 pm 
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Agreed! I did read the post, just not carefully enough however as I had a picture of anchors a meter or two back from the edge?! :? Ones placed as you say (and I in my rethink) about 40cm back from the edge (-on top of the crag) would be ideal. Invisible from below, accessible from above safely, clippable from the route (with slings) such that you can still lower normally, or ideal for topping out and belaying a second up as you wish.

I think we're on the same page. Good one Andy! Should keep all parties and styles happy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:44 am 
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Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Peers Cave ARF meet report: http://www.climb.co.za/news_detail.asp?newsid=550

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