With sport climbing, when you get to the top bolt, you put a carabiner / mailon up there and the top rope down sweeping up all your quickdraws. So you end up loosing a mailon (only if there isn't already one up there).

Something that I'm really wondering about is Trad Climbing. When you get to the top, and you top rope down, does this mean you will always loose a sling, cam, hex, bolt etc on every climb? If so, then this Trad climbing is an expensive sport

Can you do a Trad climb without loosing much equipment?

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No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:13

No you can't you always loose gear. Please come climb in my area

Ok, just kidding. Sport climbing is for woosies who can't walk. That's why there's top anchors. In the beginning of sport climbing it was done by trad climbers and there were no top anchors. When you climb on trad gear, you climb to the top. Belay your partner who takes out all the gear. When he get's to the top you take down your anchor and you walk to where ever you want to go. Sometimes trad climbers are woosies too. We sometimes throw a rope around a tree and rappel down and then pull the rope down. Sometimes we leave a sling around a rock with a mailon/ring/carabiner to rappel off. These slings are left there and they get replaced by the trad fairies when they get old.

....... and at some trad crags there are absail bolts. Table Mountain has a few ab points, so does lion's head and i think there might be a couple in the magaliesberg (?)

Awesome stuff. That makes a lot more sense... I guess making it to the top and walking on from there makes you actually feel like there's a point for summitting!

I'm really keen on the whole climbing thing. Learnt how to climb from youtube and headed of to the mounts, found some crags, built some shabby little anchor and top roped with a buddy (Yes I know, if I kill myself I will give you climbers a bad name, but what's climbing without a bit of risk involved? Then we might as well go Ten Pin bowling) . All I need now is a trad rack and then I don't need to find a way to the top, just to abseil down and climb up again and hike up again to undo my anchors

Thanks shorti.

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No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:13

Only 1 I can think of Mok. That one was very necessary because the old anchor died of old age. It also happens to be on one of the best climbs in the world

Niels, I hear what you are saying and I think it is awesome, just be careful. If you don't have someone to mentor you, go learn from someone who teaches how to do it safely. Try MCSA, Roc & Rope, Gavin, Ross, David or any off the other guides. It's necessary, otherwise you'll die.

Sure, I'll check them out and see, I guess you also learn a lot of things quickly when you have an experienced climber with you.

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No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:13

niels, where are you based? would be happy to give you a trad intro if you're in the Cape Town area.

Come and participate in the intro-to-trad-climbing workshop that is being held as part of the tradathlon... :-)

Throughout the world and also in South Africa many trad routes have lower offs that are set up in appropriate places by trad climbers. Some are bolted but in my view lower offs using threaded slings or natural gear placements especially roped rather than wired are far more elegant and sustainable than bolted lower offs. They can easily be refurbished from time to time and I last week partly refurbished the lower off at the top of Africa Arete by leaving a mailon. When next there, I shall replace the old rope with new rope which is threaded around a boulder. There are at least 20 such trad gear lower offs on Africa and Fountain Ledges off all the major routes that do not end at or near the top.

Any major climbing area that I have been to in the US, UK and Dolomites has lower off's including the Shawangunks and so on.

Lower off's are generally much better for the environment in most instances as they allow a quick descent without trampling the vegetation above the routes and causing erosion.

Overall traditional gear lower offs are much cheaper to place and maintain than bolted ones as any regular climber will have lots of "past their sell by date" bits of gear, so called leaver biners and used but still good rope. A bolted lower off station is, on average much more expensive than a trad lower off: It needs a drill which already costs the same as at least 50 lower offs, and 2 bolts and chains cost at least R100 each and usually there is one lower off per route.

Trad lower offs are almost always shared by many routes.

The trad lower off station of the Cock 'n Bull buttress is a thread with a biner and serves at least 6 routes.

The trad lower off station above Captain Hook serves at least 4 routes.

Etc.

Try an avoid leaving wired nuts as the wire rusts where-as the nut itself is aluminium. Threads are the best.

Hey Willem, thanks but I'm unfortunately in Gauteng! Seems like you Cape okes have a lot of great crags and tons of climbers. If, for some unknown reason, I happen go to Cape Town soon (unlikely), I'd love to do a trad route with you. That way I can know what gear I can look for and get some tips on placement etc. Unfortunately, it seems to get going with Trad Climbing you need a full rack, yet a full rack is so expensive! But good things come for those who wait.
Ant, as mentioned above, not from Cape Town unfortunately. Also, thanks for your reply snort.

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No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:13

Shorti, you mean Boggle right? Also chains at the end of Cederberg Recess P1, also 19 I think, same wall but about 100m downstream. You look accross at it from the Golden Balls buttress.

Ah SNORT, you never fail to deliver.