Pitch Length

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Xenomorph
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Pitch Length

Post by Xenomorph » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:18 am

Hi,
I'd like some advise:
I'm busy bolting a really long route.
I am needing to decide whether to make the pitch 25, 30 or 35m.
Obviously each has it's merits and down falls.
Some advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Cormac

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Thermophage
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Thermophage » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 am

40m definitely 40m.

mokganjetsi
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:05 am

If one-pitch route make it 35m with a lower-off anchor at a convenient point to allow lowering on a 60m rope. If multi-pitch make it 30m. I'm assuming descent is via abseiling down the route.
where be this route? :thumleft:

ironclimb
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by ironclimb » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:12 am

I guess it goes without saying, but first prize is to bolt according to features. A ledge is super for belaying a new pitch, but not so great if it's in the middle of a pitch.

Assuming either no notable features for pitches or many, my opinion is longer is better 30 - 35m is my guess for a great pitch. You don't want to stop the flow of climbing too regularly. More than 35m however, I think the amount of draws you start carrying gets a bit much, unless you start running it out, which I'm not a big fan of :)

On the crux pitche(s), if the crux is near the top of a pitch, I think it's good to ensure that the crux moves aren't above 25-30m to make it safely "escapable" if someone is unable to pull through.

hendriks
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by hendriks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:49 am

I would say it is pretty simple

Single pitch sport : anything up to 30m. Now anyone with a 60m rope will be ok and won't get lowered off the end of the line.

Multipitch : anything goes up to 55m imho. No reason not to climb full rope lengths on multipitch

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Xenomorph
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Xenomorph » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:38 am

mokganjetsi wrote:If one-pitch route make it 35m with a lower-off anchor at a convenient point to allow lowering on a 60m rope. If multi-pitch make it 30m. I'm assuming descent is via abseiling down the route.
where be this route? :thumleft:
Thanks, in WC

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Xenomorph
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Xenomorph » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:44 am

ironclimb wrote:I guess it goes without saying, but first prize is to bolt according to features. A ledge is super for belaying a new pitch, but not so great if it's in the middle of a pitch.

Assuming either no notable features for pitches or many, my opinion is longer is better 30 - 35m is my guess for a great pitch. You don't want to stop the flow of climbing too regularly. More than 35m however, I think the amount of draws you start carrying gets a bit much, unless you start running it out, which I'm not a big fan of :)

On the crux pitche(s), if the crux is near the top of a pitch, I think it's good to ensure that the crux moves aren't above 25-30m to make it safely "escapable" if someone is unable to pull through.
Thanks for input
What if person uses 30m that has been chopped and no knot in end.
Someone else suggested 28m. You can get to the ground with rope stretch on a 50m rope.
Probably 4m btwn clips starting at clip 4
Agree long pitch gives awesome feel and flow

mokganjetsi
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 pm

hendriks wrote:No reason not to climb full rope lengths on multipitch
also dig long pitches but it can become an issue with rope drag & draws needed. also depends on whether one abseils off route or not.
shorter pitches still gives you the option to link pitches up if you want to go long. i think a route like magical mystery tour @ cogmans is a good example of how it should be done.

vinceB
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by vinceB » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Hi,

I would say it depends on the logic of the route, the single/multi pitch character of the route and the grade.

- logic: This is the #1. If there's a clear line that stops after X meters, then the route will stop after X meters. If there are too many ledges, break it into a multi pitch.

- single/multi: if it's a multi pitch and the abseil route is the same as the way up, a stance every 30-35m is advisable (above that, rope drag can occur). If it's a single pitch and there are no obvious ledges, make it long (more than 30m :thumright ) and add middle lower points (if above 35m/40m)!

- grade: if you intend to bolt a hard route (>26), then don't bother about the length. Rather make it an uber long single pitch than a 2 pitches multi. Stamina is part of the game at these grades. Break it into two pitches if the grade is a bit lower: lower grades attract more climbers, with generally less experience. So better invest in safety (e.g. avoiding intermediate anchors). But, some mythical routes are 65m long.

Basically, this is your call ;)

Warren G
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Warren G » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:13 pm

As we are talking multipitch here....

Long pitches between comfy stances are first prize, however reading between the lines here I'm guessing this is on granite, making ledges unlikely. I agree that ensuring rope drag doesn't become a factor is crucial for bolt placement, however when I do multipitch sport lines I carry an assortment of draw lengths for this exact reason.

Regarding draw count, I believe 20-24 is the practical limit for leading, which at 2-3m intervals makes pitches 40-72m! So don't worry about this constraint, rope drag is far more pressing.

Corms, its a shame you don't have access to Free State Multipitches, as many of them show excellence in bolting. I highly recommend taking the family on a road trip there one summer. Routes like Power Pigeon are bolted such that with a single 60m rope the 4 pitches become 2 fantastic pitches of glory.
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Justin
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Justin » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:19 pm

Go long :thumleft:
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Hallam
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Hallam » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:46 am

Hi all,

[shameless spray, but it is relevant]

I've recently bolted a line at Wit Umfolozi with a similar problem, and there was much debate on the subject. Eventually the aesthetics of the long line won out, and it was bolted as a single pitch, with the anchors placed at the top of the wall at the logical ending, giving a 35m line. There's a convenient ledge off to one side a third of the way up, which has other routes leading off it, and will have a belay anchor, meaning that those with 60m can get off easily.

It's still a project, and plenty hard (for me), but at about 25/26 it doesn't quite fit into vinceB's definition. Still, despite two hands-off rests, it feels pretty sustained! 18 quickdraws required, and the big crux comes fairly low, while they're still weighing you down. Of course.

There's a nearly 40m 22 to the left, which is awesome. It's Gerald Camp's, and was bolted in 1994, so you can probably guess it's actual grade.

I agree with Justin. When in doubt, go long. :hapban

AndrewSport
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by AndrewSport » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:36 pm

As some guys said, if there is a logical place such as a cubby or scoop or ledge, then place a stance there.
Murphy is always in the look out to cause trouble so in my personal opinion you should always be able to back off on any route......which means pitches of 25-28m each.
If you feel that due to flow or enjoyment or whatever some pitches should be linked, then simply recommend so in your route write up. Then the climber can pop a quickdraw in one of your anchors and just climb past. (keep the total length of any two linked pitches to less than 60m)
So you giving the climber the choice of linking it or not and still bolt a safe, escapable route.
I also think that most climbers have 60m ropes and about 14 quickdraws. If you bolt long pitches requiring 70m ropes and 24 quickdraws, then you will exclude quite a few of us from climbing your amazing route :P

mokganjetsi
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by mokganjetsi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:21 am

Sticky Toffee Pudding at Boven climbs around 38m but makes a slight S-curve; hence a 70m rope gets you to the ground. The problem is, even with extending draws, my 9,8mm rope gave so ton of rope-drag on the last couple of bolts (generally I think rope drag is a far bigger issue than draw weight on long routes). The route should definitely be single pitch though; the line flows beautifully and chopping it in two will give you two average short routes. Don't quite now how to solve the problem except climbing with the new generation ultra-skinny single ropes.

shorti
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by shorti » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:56 am

Xenomorph wrote:Probably 4m btwn clips
4m! well ok then

Old Smelly
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Old Smelly » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:04 pm

One word for you Mok - "Revolvers"
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

vinceB
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by vinceB » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:14 pm

Or alternatively, when you're high of the ground, clip one bolt our of two! Great to link two pitches in one with a minimal rope drag :)

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Justin
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Re: Pitch Length

Post by Justin » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:57 am

In Montagu at Sloth Crag in Bad Kloof, there is a single/double route.

Pitch 1: If I Stay There Will Be Trouble - 23/6b+ 9 Bolts
Pitch 2: If I Go It will Be Double - P2:24/7a 14 Bolts

If I Stay There Will Be Trouble 23 [9 Bolts] ends at mid chains.
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