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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:04 pm 
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Stainless or Galvanized?

Conventional wisdom seems to be that we should use stainless at the coast and galvanized inland.

I’d prefer to see stainless bolts only. Why?

1. Re-equipping a route is a mission. It’s hard to do it without making a mess. . Stainless bolts last longer, ergo - fewer missions.
2. New bolts need to be placed a safe distance from where the old bolt was. By the 2nd or third re-equip (in 20 years time), you’ll run out of space. Esp. on a difficult clip.
3. Some say that galvanized bolts are stronger and cheaper. I’d rather have a slightly weaker bolt that lasts twice as long and cost only a fraction more (when you include the total bolting effort).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:54 pm 
I didnt know people still considered galvanised bolts?

we shouldnt even be considering stainless. We should all stop being short sigted and get a few thousand titanium glue ins made up. It is worth it in the long run. It is cool to put up two routes in a day with expansions but what about our kids? why should they have to spend their weekends replacing all of our tat when we can prevent this now.

I say, lets stop replacing bolts with more bolts that'll just rust away. Perhaps a comitee of climbers needs to be set up to address this. There are many of us who are engineers and into design, and our country has many forging plants. It would be the initial set up of the tools, but then we could have large batches made up. With clever design it would be possible to use the dry sachet hilti adhesive option [no messy glue guns] and I'm sure it's possible to come in at close to the existing R25 a placement.

Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:55 pm 
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Could I have a definitive answer please. What is the difference between using the glue in eye bolts and the 316 rolled bolts and hangers. Apart from being able to lower off easily what is the benefit. I think the lifespan would be about the same. What is the cost of placing an eye bolt, as currently placing the bolt and hanger costs around R20.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:53 pm 
the only benfits would be that water wouldnt be able to make contact with the steel bolt in the hole, which would stop corrosion in coastal areas with porous stone. Added to this the bolts would not be under tension therefore less susceptable to SCC. Plus it's a better grade metal all together. You mentioned the lowering off option as well. It's a better option than expansions for sure. Trumps would obviously be if these anchors were made from Titanium.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:00 pm 
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I guess this post really applies to the Gauteng bolters. Andy seems to have the Western Cape sewn up with the ARF.

So I guess we can agree that we should ideally use glue-ins inland.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:30 pm 
Ja Stu...the cost diffrence is huge. StainlessS glue in 'P' bolts will be imported at this stage. +- R80 each, plus shipping & import duties. Most 'P's are of 10mm rod so we will need to drill 11-12mm holes. That means less holes per battery. Glue is another cost. 'P's could fairly easily be made in SA. But who ever takes it on will need to have a fair idea of anealing & pickeling without which SS 'P's could still have SCC issues.

Last time I priced a Titanium 'P' they were R140...with out transport or tax. But they should have come down in price as $ is weaker to the rand. More than a third of T is mined in SA, but the industry is not very developed in SA. Have not been able as yet to find a company that has a lot of experiance with T production/welding/anealing??Bending. But a price on 12mm rod that is currently avalible in SA
\"Price : R1220 per metre excl Vat , delivered East London\"
That is one thousand two hundred & twenty = **** + VAT /F*** m

Lets keep investigating. Is there anyone out there who has any other info on T & making it into a 'P' bolts?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:39 am 
Hi, The titanium 'Tortuga' bolts manufactured by Liberty Mountain works are no longer in production. I have been in contact with Chris McNamara from Liberty and he will let us know if they come back online with that product. These bolts also cost $7+ not including shipping! They will last a very long time, just how long is unknown as none have been in long enough to show any signs of wear! Probably in excess of sixty years?

The lifespan of glue in stainless anchors is also much longer than the mechanical anchors, Stainless glue in anchors removed (as a matter of course) after thirty years in a seaside location in the States were all still in good working condition. Hence the ARFs choice to go this route. All the crags I visted in France recently are being re-equipped with glue ins. It is however (as shown above) much, much more expensive.

Chris also suggested that we start manufacturing Titanium bolts locally. Titanium is exceptionally difficult to work, you need to find exactly the right grade and the right people, properly equipped to handle the work. So again: anyone know of titanium experts who could advise the way forward from here?

PS Any thought of using galvanised mild steel is totally ludicrous!! Anyone still using this junk needs to severely reprimanded! And no it is not acceptable inland either. Creating an epic replacement task for the poor guys who have to come and clean up your mess, just to save yourself a few bucks is totally uncool! If you are struggling to afford the cost of equipping your line properly then just ask for help.


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