Just making a point! I'm not blaming Nick for the end of the world but I am saying that he has a crap attitude.

ok...so I got the reactions that I was looking for. The only apology I am going to make is to SNORT as I feel that (during my pissed off/hotheaded rage) I singled him out and attacked him personally on a public forum....oops sorry ....it was uncalled for
To jgb....
'For all you know Nick might be an extremely hardworking environmentalist and feel just as strongly about these issues as you do, but you group him with Matt Bush's offences!? (Nick I hope this is the case and my comments do not come back to haunt me :-))'

Thanks for sticking up for me and reading between the lines....and yes I am an extremely hard working conservationist and have just finished my BTech in nature conservation and in a year will be following on with my masters (when I get back from cold dreary London ).
All in all I got what I wanted and that was simply to stir the pot and see if anything positive comes from it.
Cheers
Nicolas Telford

Just for interest, below is the sign at the beginning of the path to the Sanddrif Crag.

Nice one NickT - good to see an apology happening on the forum (they are very rare!)

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Climb ZA - Administrator

So, you are not, actually, prepared to DO anything yourself? Is stirring the pot your contribution? I imagine that those who do, actually, put effort into climbing in ZA are well aware of the hot-potatoe-topics. Not sure your "contribution" is either inspired nor needed.

Give the guy a break Tristan.

He got hot headed and said so and said sorry.

well if I was in SA I would but alas I am not. I have over the past year found and developed a good amount of bouldering in the George region (which was sorely lacking). I have also arranged permanent access to these boulders and am busy preparing the RD which will be available from the climbing gym in George. This, as well as mentoring a few young newcomers to climbing in the George region and taking them out climbing on rock does not count as doing my bit? Not to mention guiding 'international' (not pro) climbers around in CT that I have met at various places.....
Didnt really see the need to point out exactly what I have personally done for climbing but there you go....oh..and i've only been climbing for three years. Wish I was superman and could do more but obviously I can't. Thanks Charles for sticking up for me after I attacked you. If opinions aren't voiced then people don't hear them. Everyone is a part of the community and many do a lot for climbing. When one has not been climbing for very long one feels the need for guidance from the community and what I was getting at is that the community is split. In a way you could say 'clicky'. I just maybe didnt do it in the smartest way, but at least my points got heard and responded to. I know more people that feel similarly but don't want to publicly say it out loud on the forum or have simply given up. Lets hope that this may start turning positive rather than continuing to be negative.
Like for instance putting up a permanent link to the MCSA web page so that its more integrated with the rest of the community? MCSA has been around for years and has stood the test of time...now why don't make it more accessible? Maybe the fees are too high for many people? Maybe by dropping them a bit you would attract more members (the students for example?) or would the club rather stay the way it is and accommodate only those that can afford it? What MCSA does for climbing is awesome but it just simply feels slightly detached from the rest of us.

Actually, besides the access negotiation and the RD, the rest is self-serving and not a selfless sacrifice which the community as a whole benefits from. Getting Hot-Headed is not give-a-break-able, sorry. It is way easy to sit on the sidelines and "stir the pot"...then walk away and leave it to others to manage said pot. To what end? By all means be proactive but stirring a pot for the sake of it, in fact explicitly, and then implying that the people / organizations which you are stirring are irrelevant / not doing anything is not, in my opinion, constructive. But then it wasn't, really, meant to be constructive...oh wait, it was..."see if something positive come of it".

Nick

What are you expecting the MCSA to do for you? Must we wipe your ase? We certainly don't need to more pot-stirers.

Our sections subs are R260 a year....what are you hoping to pay? Freak-a-duck surely you can't expect to pay less.