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 Post subject: cleaning the chains
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:29 pm
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Location: pretoria
i discoverd the other day that i was doing it in a unsafe manner.

i only use to use a sling and biner to ancher myself to the wall at the chains
(They teched me wrong) Till i wa told the other day that u gotta abcher in on both chains
so now i am using a single 60 cm sling and a tape knot and to biners (what do u plp think of this)


i would also like to know how u ppl are doing it ????


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:19 am 
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Location: PTA
Fridge,

There's no perfect way, the basic principle is that you are attached to the rock at two seperate anchor points the whole time that you are cleaning.

Some people clip in with a sling/biner and then clip the two draws off at the rope end and attach onto their harness tie-in points,thread rope and re-tie and then clean,reckon thats pretty safe. Seen some people leave out the biner/sling part too.

In europe and some places locally where you can get your rope through the anchors on bight they just clip a sling/biner, take up some slack rope and push it through the anchors doubled (does that make sense?) and then tie a figure eight on bight, use a biner to clip onto harness and untie old knot that they came up on and pull rope through, you then have a long tag but you were never going to drop your rope.

Hope this helps?

anyone else know of a better way?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:25 am 
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Location: pretoria
hmmm k

wel my anti riope drop formula is once i am anchord in i make use of a clove hitch to a biner or draw (attached to me) so that i if i drop the rope i still got it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:39 am 
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You should be attached to at least 2 points while untying. Your system of a knotted sling and a biner sounds good. Just make sure it is a screw gate or some other type of locking biner.

I normally use 2 long quickdraws, opposing, into the belay loop. You need to clip into the second to last link in the chain in order to leave space for the rope.I have seen the passing a bite through the anchors system used as well, it is very fast, and quite safe as well, since you are always on belay, again, use a locking biner to lower on.

For an anti rope dropping system, I also tie a clove hitch to a biner, but I attach it to my belay loop. Thus, in thory, since I am still on belay, if the anchors blow, I will get cought by the last bolt on the route. I never want to test this theory, but it is a good habit.

_________________
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:57 pm
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Location: Port Elizabeth
It also makes sense for someone top-roping a line before cleaning it, to clip the last bolt to the other end of the rope. This way, the last bolt will also catch you in the case of a mishap. This is especially good when beginners are asked to clean a route.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:38 pm 
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magnus - clipping penultimate bolt only works if the rope is tied to the belay loop during the cleaning.

fridge - consider tying the rope from the belayer to the belay loop instead of to a gear loop, as DaveD discussed. If the anchors blow you'll have the equivalent of a lead fall from the anchors (so long as belayer has you locked off). DaveD's method (clofehitch + biner) works. I prefer feeding a bight through the belay loop, then tying the bight off in a figure-eight around the incoming lines. (DaveD's method is easier to explain).

Depending on the layout of the anchor, clipping into the anchor using a sling can give more space to work than clipping in using Q/Ds. More space = better view of what you're doing = probably safer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:26 pm 
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Sorry guys, my intention is not to dampen your discussion but do you think that getting 'Cleaning Tips' from a forum is a very smart idea?! If people don't know how to clean a route than this is probably not the place for them to learn?!
Rather get someone in the know to physically show you how to do it rather than trusting some random person you possiblly have never met...
it is after all a life threating situation you're dealing with!
Use it, don't use it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:23 pm 
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Hi Scott,

I take your point.

But if the guy was already climbing and using dangerous cleaning techniques as in this case, then spelling out the theory and passing on tips is hardly going to make the situation worse is it?

Agreed that physically showing someone is the best but not practical on a forum :)

Also, its alot better and more productive than talking sh1t and flaming peope like Guest and co. dontcha think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:15 pm 
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mkboy,
As I said before, I don't want to offend anyone, just thought I'd mention it...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Location: JHB
Multipitch question - after finishing a route and descending:

If you abseil down to the chains below and you start pulling the rope down and it gets stuck what do you do? Tie the rope off at the chains and re climb the pitch while you clip and self belay? (ie fasten the bottom end of the rope, climb, clip, let out rope on an autoblock system?) - obviously a second rope would be the best solution but what if?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:29 pm
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Location: pretoria
for those of of u that did give advise thank u it makes a lot of sense

hmm damn didnt know that there where so many different ways that u some ppl do i will defently have a closer look at some of them in the future


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:45 am 
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RE:Cleaning Chains : My two cents. Make yourself a Cow's Tail. I've been using the system for close on a decade and many other climbers have been for longer. it works brilliantly and cuts down on the error margin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:37 am 
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A cow tail is fine if both fixed anchors lead to a single ring & you are happy clipping into a single ring or one anchor. Cow tails get tangled with other gear.

I prefer 2 draws, 1 into each anchor then onto the belay loop.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Hey Marshall, I should have been more specific. I use a double Cows Tail, so that when I am cleaning I have no less than two anchor points.
As for the thing getting tangled with other gear, I have never had that problem.

Each to their own.


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