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 Post subject: Rope-solo question...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Yo, lone nutters on high.... I need to pick yer brains!

Is the chest harness used primarily to hold the device (gri-gri in my case) at the correct angle to allow the rope to flow more comfortably, or is vital for safety?

Instead of buying a chest harness, could I safely and effectively improvise with a sling?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:02 am 
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It's just to hold the device in position and a sling will work fine but it will become uncomfortable if the weight of the rope is pulling down on the sling chest harness. Use a wider sling if possible, the new light spectra ones will hurt if you're going to be doing it for a few hours.

If you're just using a grigri you can use it from your harness and don't need a chest harness.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:32 am 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
A Grigri is not really designed for this sort of thing and may fail to lock in a side loading situation or during a tumble when a part of your body is pressing against the lever. Its impossible to visualise every situation that may occur but suffice to say that each fall will be complicated in some way and will hardly ever be a simple clean fall where every thing works the way you practiced at home!

The only device truly designed for free climbing solo is a Silent Partner, even this requires back up knots in the rope which you have to stop to untie every so often (usually necesstitating clipping into gear to free up both hands - hardly free climbing). It does however have an exceptionally smooth feed and very dynamic catch (something a Grigri - if it works - sorely lacks) to the point of dropping you quite a distance. Super expensive piece of kit the partner, and as I say not all that easy to use. Suitable for long easy to moderate country routes, no good for sport climbing by yourself.

Use gear that is designed for the task at hand (like a real live climbing partner!). Each time you use gear in ways it is not designed for, you put yourself at serious risk. Its a nice thought being able to go off and climb by yourself, but take up bouldering, you'll live longer!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:50 am 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
douard wrote:
It's just to hold the device in position and a sling will work fine but it will become uncomfortable if the weight of the rope is pulling down on the sling chest harness. Use a wider sling if possible, the new light spectra ones will hurt if you're going to be doing it for a few hours.

If you're just using a grigri you can use it from your harness and don't need a chest harness.


Thanks Douard!

Just found some nice info on modifying a grigri with a short piece of accessory cord, without needing to drill a hole in it.... the article also mentioned that it isn't entirely necessary to modify (and hence no need for a chest harness), but would make it a bit more comfortable.

Now, rope! My grigri has performed well (holding static weight and short falls), with my 9.4mm single rope...... although the minimum diameter rating on the grigri is 10mm. Haven't yet had to catch a big fall with that set up, so have no idea what the slippage, or potential catch failure would be. What's your opinion on using a 9.4 with a grigri? I'm dreading having to fight with my rather fluffy 10.5.

Cheers
Jono


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:00 am 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
XMod wrote:
A Grigri is not really designed for this sort of thing and may fail to lock in a side loading situation or during a tumble when a part of your body is pressing against the lever. Its impossible to visualise every situation that may occur but suffice to say that each fall will be complicated in some way and will hardly ever be a simple clean fall where every thing works the way you practiced at home!


Points taken!

XMod wrote:
The only device truly designed for free climbing solo is a Silent Partner, even this requires back up knots in the rope which you have to stop to untie every so often (usually necesstitating clipping into gear to free up both hands - hardly free climbing). It does however have an exceptionally smooth feed and very dynamic catch (something a Grigri - if it works - sorely lacks) to the point of dropping you quite a distance. Super expensive piece of kit the partner, and as I say not all that easy to use. Suitable for long easy to moderate country routes, no good for sport climbing by yourself.


T'is the 'expensive' part of the Silent Parnter that disturbs me, more than the less dynamic catch (and possible locking failure) of the grigri. The back-up knot system should also work with grigri, yes? Not planning any stiff sport climbing, just some nice moderate (and as direct as possible at the grade) trad, with plenty ledges for free hands to fiddle with knots 'n wotnots.

XMod wrote:
Use gear that is designed for the task at hand (like a real live climbing partner!). Each time you use gear in ways it is not designed for, you put yourself at serious risk. Its a nice thought being able to go off and climb by yourself, but take up bouldering, you'll live longer!


I smell bad..... my partners have all bailed on me. Hahaha. Ag, just wanting to try something different.... got a mini walk-about vibe on the go mate. Eish man, bouldering is what laid me off climbing for too long... both ankles buggered, rotator cuff torn. Sure I'll live longer, but will be more miserable! hehe

Thanks for the insights!!
:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:32 pm 
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you don't have to struggle with the knots if you plan correctly. if you take about 5m bites of rope and tie them to a locking biner using a clove hitch tied loose enough to slide of when you open the gate this serves as your backup. when you are approaching the end og the 5m bite you take the biner off your belay loop and slide the clove hitch off (helps if your biner is one of those key hole one). the motion is similar to placing gear so it doesn't mess with you climbing. it does work better with the silent partner as it feeds rope automitically.

you can use the similar system with the grigri but you have to pull the rope though yourself, or modify like you mentioned.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:33 am
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Location: Johannesburg
Hi there,

I have been reading your discussion, Rope - Solo,

are you guys climbing along with ropes with out a climbing parter .. is that correct. Or have I got it wrong


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
douard wrote:
you don't have to struggle with the knots if you plan correctly. if you take about 5m bites of rope and tie them to a locking biner using a clove hitch tied loose enough to slide of when you open the gate this serves as your backup. when you are approaching the end og the 5m bite you take the biner off your belay loop and slide the clove hitch off (helps if your biner is one of those key hole one). the motion is similar to placing gear so it doesn't mess with you climbing. it does work better with the silent partner as it feeds rope automitically.

you can use the similar system with the grigri but you have to pull the rope though yourself, or modify like you mentioned.


Cool tip, thanks!

And cleaning on the way up again, after lowering to the previous stance... can you use the same grigri set-up on a fixed single line, or is it a better to ensure the pitches are short enough for a doubled rope - thereby cleaning the pitch using a top-rope self-belay style?

I assume a traverse pitch is a bit of an admin nightmare eh?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
RAT32 wrote:
Hi there,

I have been reading your discussion, Rope - Solo,

are you guys climbing along with ropes with out a climbing parter .. is that correct. Or have I got it wrong


Yip, you got it right....... I hope I get it right too! :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 108
All I can add is to make sure that your bottom anchors are bombers, both on sport and trad. I had a situation where I was about 5 meters off the deck and saw my bottom anchor dangling in space... not a nice sight, especially when you are alone....

Bi-directionaly equalized and locked carabiners for bottom anchors......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:25 pm 
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cleaning...

well it depends on the grade and angle of the rock. on the steep hard stuff i would abseil and clean on the way down and just jumar up.

If you're planning to free climb back up, then clean on way down but leave some directional pieces to clean on the way up. this also works for traverses but always keep in mind where you'd end up if you fall and make sure you can jumar/prussik from there.

I would climb on toprope using a shunt on a double rope as it slides easily on the rope. remember to back up the shunt with tied off figures eights and to keep re-tieing as you go up. i learned that the hard way. also the shunt does not work well on an overhanging situation, it won't lock until the rope is vertical again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 11
Location: Johannesburg
Hi guys,

I am very interested in this. I may seam a bit stupid but if I dont ask question I what learn.

OK Rope Solo,

You climb with rope attatched to you of cause,
and grigri is on you oK when you get to first bolt, clip in quickdraw right,
do you put a sling t rope and then to grigrip

can some one draw picture, Thank


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
pillick wrote:
All I can add is to make sure that your bottom anchors are bombers, both on sport and trad. I had a situation where I was about 5 meters off the deck and saw my bottom anchor dangling in space... not a nice sight, especially when you are alone....

Bi-directionaly equalized and locked carabiners for bottom anchors......


EISH! :shock: You must've k@kked bruuuu! hehehe

Right, bomber gear for the anchor - Check!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
Check out http://www.wrenindustries.com/silentmanual.pdf it has some tips and some advice for hassle-free (as hassle-free as rope-soloing gets) ropesoloing. It's intended for the Silent Partner but there are a lot of useful tips.
In my experience the SP is a very reliable tool, I've taken a number of big falls, including a scary headfirst dive (keep this in mind when using the gri-gri), and it locked up everytime, no problem. The backup knots never came into play. So if you find yourself rope-soloing more and more than consider switching.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
douard wrote:
cleaning...

well it depends on the grade and angle of the rock. on the steep hard stuff i would abseil and clean on the way down and just jumar up.

If you're planning to free climb back up, then clean on way down but leave some directional pieces to clean on the way up. this also works for traverses but always keep in mind where you'd end up if you fall and make sure you can jumar/prussik from there.

I would climb on toprope using a shunt on a double rope as it slides easily on the rope. remember to back up the shunt with tied off figures eights and to keep re-tieing as you go up. i learned that the hard way. also the shunt does not work well on an overhanging situation, it won't lock until the rope is vertical again.


Shot bro! Will test myself on easy ground first.... get my head properly round the technicalities before attempting steeper lines.

Cheers for the tips and advice!!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Stu wrote:
Check out http://www.wrenindustries.com/silentmanual.pdf it has some tips and some advice for hassle-free (as hassle-free as rope-soloing gets) ropesoloing. It's intended for the Silent Partner but there are a lot of useful tips.
In my experience the SP is a very reliable tool, I've taken a number of big falls, including a scary headfirst dive (keep this in mind when using the gri-gri), and it locked up everytime, no problem. The backup knots never came into play. So if you find yourself rope-soloing more and more than consider switching.


Thanks Stu... certainly will consider a proper device if it becomes a regular activity..... I've maxed out my gear budget for a while!

I've heard only good things about the Silent Partner though.

In your opinion does rope-soloing offer more opportunity for head-first dives, for some reason? (I initially thought this was the case due to a lot of folks recommending a chest harness).... or is the likelihood pretty much the same as with partnered climbing?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
RAT32 wrote:
Hi guys,

I am very interested in this. I may seam a bit stupid but if I dont ask question I what learn.

OK Rope Solo,

You climb with rope attatched to you of cause,
and grigri is on you oK when you get to first bolt, clip in quickdraw right,
do you put a sling t rope and then to grigrip

can some one draw picture, Thank


Hi Rat

Will draw up a little diagram for you as soon as I can. MS Paint is buggering me around - or vice versa.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
I would say the same. I was up there all alone with a long fall awaiting if I came off and unsure about the anchor, and so not sure if I should continue - the hesitation caused me to do something I usually wouldn't have with a belayer, ending in the headfirst screamer. There's usually no difference apart from the mental aspect.
Also keep in mind that ropesoloing usually ups the route grade by one or two.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Stu... just checked the link you posted. Wow, SP looks like the way to go, when I have some spare loot.

Rat... check Stu's link for pics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:33 am
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Location: Johannesburg
Gee - it has taken me a while to figure this out. Rope solo. Pls tell me if I understand it properly.

Rope set-up system. End of rope must be anchored at bottom, one must attach the grigri to my harness & as I climb using the quick draws, I attach the rope.

As a safety precaution I can have a prusik?

Pls advise!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:58 pm 
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I've always used the SP but I'm sure the gri-gri system works well to, and maybe even the faster system looking at Mr Burls' ascent of The Rave...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Rat... ja, always a good idea to have a prussik at your disposal, if you're on steep ground or traverses..... athough, I'd keep it ready to use, clipped on to a gear loop, and not already tied to the rope. It would probably make life, and rope management, quite a bit harder to have it already attached while climbing...... back up knots would be the better option.

....then again, I'm probably not the best qualified to answer, so could be completely wrong.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:21 pm 
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I use a jumar, it's way faster and easier to get to your high point!! And if you're using a GriGri then it's even simplier to ascend the rope...


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Stu wrote:
I've always used the SP but I'm sure the gri-gri system works well to, and maybe even the faster system looking at Mr Burls' ascent of The Rave...


Ja, damn...what was his record....something like 5.5hrs car to car???

I read of a solo technique employing just a clove hitch on the biner - hmmm?!?! Seems like fairly hard work that way, and wibble inducing too!

Going to use the unmodified gri-gri method for now, and play around with the modified option a bit further on, and in the meantime save up for the SP. Eish, seems I'm on the path to gear-whoredom!! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:28 pm 
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Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Oh ja.... any comments on using a skinny 9.4 with a gri-gri? Good idea.. bad idea? Starting to think I must make friends again with my fat fluffy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:36 pm 
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Location: Johannesburg
Hi JonoJ

So am I correct that I do not tie into the rope, but only into the grigri?

We have experienced a slip through the grigri on one occassion where the grigri did not automatically lock. How do I climb, whilst ensuring that the grigri locks? The silent parter - seams to the the answer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Hey RAT32,

Please dont try any of these techniques until you are 100% sure of the systems and what's what. Practice them while a buddy topropes you. Use back up knots if u'r on a gri-gri. I have always rope solo'd on a normal gri-gri, but the modified one feeds better, or so I've read.

These links should clear it all up for you:
http://ulrichprinz.de/alpin/equipment/s ... index.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Tr ... y_675.html

Stay safe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:15 pm 
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Location: Johannesburg
Hi Storm Trooper

Thanks for the advice - I had a look at the website & it looks good. I was just interested in finding out about it. I will obviously prefer not to use this technique, but the more knowledge the better. But you know how it is - when you are into climbing!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:22 pm 
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well, it's great technique to learn and if done correctly is safe to use. It really opens up those days when you cant find someone to climb with. It's pretty scary when you first set off, but then it's amazing actually. You most definitly want to use a helmet for this and it's best to inform people before you set out. It's like night climbing, you hear of people doing it, but I never wanted to be in that situation until I tried it. Rope solo climbing is a great adventure and can be really good for the soul.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 763
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi JonoJ

Skinny ropes (<10mm) and gri-gri = VERY BAD IDEA. If you are rope soloing you are not going to be in a position to hold the free end of the rope, which is what is required to operate a gri-gri properly. On skinny ropes a gri-gri will still provide enough friction to MANUALLY stop a fall, i.e. it will behave like a bug/ATC etc. IT WILL NOT AUTOLOCK.

So make friends with your 10.5 again...

...javascript:emoticon(':evil:')
Evil or Very MadQuick rant: Yes, it is true, a gri-gri is NOT a hands free device, you will ALWAYS still need to hold the free end of the rope. It is when people forget this that there are accidents. How many accidents have you heard of involving Bug/ATC type belay devices?javascript:emoticon(':evil:')
Evil or Very Mad...
Sorry about that...
Safe climbing
Nic :evil:


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