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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 727
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi JonoJ

Skinny ropes (<10mm) and gri-gri = VERY BAD IDEA. If you are rope soloing you are not going to be in a position to hold the free end of the rope, which is what is required to operate a gri-gri properly. On skinny ropes a gri-gri will still provide enough friction to MANUALLY stop a fall, i.e. it will behave like a bug/ATC etc. IT WILL NOT AUTOLOCK.

So make friends with your 10.5 again...

...Quick rant: Yes, it is true, a gri-gri is NOT a hands free device, you will ALWAYS still need to hold the free end of the rope. It is when people forget this that there are accidents. How many accidents have you heard of involving Bug/ATC type belay devices?
Sorry about that...
Safe climbing
Nic


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:10 am 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Nic Le Maitre wrote:
Hi JonoJ

Skinny ropes (<10mm) and gri-gri = VERY BAD IDEA. If you are rope soloing you are not going to be in a position to hold the free end of the rope, which is what is required to operate a gri-gri properly. On skinny ropes a gri-gri will still provide enough friction to MANUALLY stop a fall, i.e. it will behave like a bug/ATC etc. IT WILL NOT AUTOLOCK.

So make friends with your 10.5 again...

...Quick rant: Yes, it is true, a gri-gri is NOT a hands free device, you will ALWAYS still need to hold the free end of the rope. It is when people forget this that there are accidents. How many accidents have you heard of involving Bug/ATC type belay devices?
Sorry about that...
Safe climbing
Nic


Thought as much...thanks Nic. Time to wash the fat bastard and take him climbing again! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 11
Location: Johannesburg
[img]http:Rope%20Solo%20top_jpg[/img]
[/img]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 780
Real Name: Greg Hart
Jono, u ass! Now u've started a learn to solo via the web thread. I hate these how-to threads! :evil: Its just asking to have someone screw up!

Mega important to all would be soloists:
- Do not leave the ground until you are absolutely 100% with the system you are using.
- Use only the recommended ropes for your device.
- Double your safety checks and awareness, there is no-one else to check things!
- Make sure the ground anchor is bombproof and fully redundant.
- Always use back up knots, Wren industries (maker of the Silent Partner) recommend tieing in to locking biners with figure 8's. I cheat and use clove hitches for speed, but the locking biner is essential.
- Use locking biners for everything!!
- Remember ur first placement is still a factor two fall with potential for groundfall, your second is still at more than factor one with potential for ground fall, only at the third piece do you get a break but are still looking at a close to factor one fall! Be careful near the ground and ledges, because of the feed in the partner, you go a long way! The high fall factors of a rock solid static bottom anchor is another reason the Grigri is not the best choice.
- Climbing overhanging rock is the way to go as it is much safer.
- Always carry jumars or prussik cord and slings/etriers.
- Always let someone know where you are, and carry a phone (Goes without saying but doubly important when on ur own)

Which ever way you chose, Grigri, Silent Partner or just free and wild, soloing a big chunk of rock is a very empowering experience. Sport climbing is possible with a S.P. but its too much rope work for too little rock, although at least you dont have to jug back up after cleaning.

[/list]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:42 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:39 pm
Posts: 304
Location: JHB
Hey Jono

I have a fairly limited amout of rope-soloing behind me and it's always just been multi-pitch sport stuff (probably a good spot to learn) with a Gri-Gri. What I can tell you is that climbing with a fluffy 10.5mm rope is going to be extremely frustrating and energy consuming. Personally I found a 10.2mm in pretty good nick was the best option (while still sticking to the Gri-Gri's rules!). I have heard of guys using skinnier ropes but that's obviously a risk that you'd have to be prepared to take...

WRT learing to rope-solo with info from the web, I don't really see the problem. Just make sure that you understand YOUR system (whatever it may be, since you may well tweak ideas you get from the web) and that you've given all the possible outcomes some thought and how you plan to react to those situations.

_________________
Open hand, open mind...


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:49 am 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
XMod wrote:
Jono, u ass! Now u've started a learn to solo via the web thread. I hate these how-to threads! :evil: Its just asking to have someone screw up!


[/list]


XMod, you tjop! Would it have been safer for me to book appointments and have face to face chats with everyone that's responded in the forum? I don't believe there are Rope-Solo 101 courses through the MSCA. I also don't believe the first few okes to do it had any manual or pay-by hour-instructor to teach them. They used their knowledge of gear, common sense, savvy, and no doubt a bit of trial and error.

This is the perfect place to get ideas, tips, feedback and insight from people that may know a bit more than I do.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:06 am 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
MarkM wrote:
Hey Jono

I have a fairly limited amout of rope-soloing behind me and it's always just been multi-pitch sport stuff (probably a good spot to learn) with a Gri-Gri. What I can tell you is that climbing with a fluffy 10.5mm rope is going to be extremely frustrating and energy consuming. Personally I found a 10.2mm in pretty good nick was the best option (while still sticking to the Gri-Gri's rules!). I have heard of guys using skinnier ropes but that's obviously a risk that you'd have to be prepared to take...

WRT learing to rope-solo with info from the web, I don't really see the problem. Just make sure that you understand YOUR system (whatever it may be, since you may well tweak ideas you get from the web) and that you've given all the possible outcomes some thought and how you plan to react to those situations.


Thanks Mark!.... ja, I figured as much with the 10.5.... could never pay out slack to a lead climber quickly and smoothly enough through a Gri-Gri, and hence hated the device.

Yip, agreed on understanding MY system..... got it pretty tweaked in my head, after a rainy weekend with much time for intense thought and fiddling with racking options. Will certainly choose something easy to put it all to practice on.

Cheers
Jono


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:03 am
Posts: 166
Location: da Big Red baboon in magalies
A friend of mine tried rope soloing. Only he didn't have a sport rope to do it with... so he used his trad rope... all 8.6mm of it...

Yes now you wondering is this guy stupid??? Well perhaps he is/was but he's still around to tell the tale, even after the monster whipper he took :shock:

I only learned of the rope he was using when I met up with him after he had come down from the route. He had sneakily not told anyone of his ploy to use his trad rope. And rightly so coz there would be no waze we would have let him climb. And just to make you all feel better...
YES I DID KICK HIS ARSE!

So I recon a 9.4mm would suffice (even against what petzl says) just make your backup knots closer. But hey don’t blame me if you go splat. But you can call me to help fetch you...

I know of people who use the gri gri with 9.1mm joker... Not that I think its a good idea... just use back up knots...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Thanks Fanta! Will first see how my fat 'n fluffy performs.... if badly, I will try out the skinny.

Now here's a funny question or two, for the techno and physics buffs.... something I've been mulling over (which may or may not be a totally pointless question):

1) Would the weight of the climber effect the stopping / braking capability of an inertia based device (gri-gri, silent partner, 'n wotnot)?

My thinking is that, the lighter the climber the less force created during a fall. Theoretically, would an active auto-locking device take a little (perhaps hardly measurable) longer to brake a fall by a scrawny light weight climber?

2) From what I can tell, the main advantages of the SP over a gri-gri, are that it will hold a fall regardless of body position/angle, and it offers a much more dynamic catch than a gri-gri. Now, what would be the comparison, lets say to a gri-gri and a passive auto-locking device like the reverso or BD Guide?

HYPOTHETICALLY....If the BD Guide was set up in auto locking mode, and used an solo device, and HYPOTHETICALLY the fall was in a normal upright body position..... would it catch you (albeit most undynamically)?

Cheers!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 264
Location: JHB
I can only take a swing at point 1 - gravity acts equally irrespective of your weight, so your accelaration would be equal and thus your weight wouldnt affect the amount of time it takes for the gear to bite the rope, however once it does bite it will lock in harder (this does not mean sooner or faster just more difficult to release)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
Mark wrote:
I can only take a swing at point 1 - gravity acts equally irrespective of your weight, so your accelaration would be equal and thus your weight wouldnt affect the amount of time it takes for the gear to bite the rope, however once it does bite it will lock in harder (this does not mean sooner or faster just more difficult to release)


Aaah cool, yes that does make sense, thanks Mark. Right, so, inertia based devices (from gri-gris to car seatbelt thingees), act on the change in acceleration (m/s/s) (which in gravity terms is always equal), and not the final impact force (KN). Shotto! :) Shoulda hauled out my old highschool physics text books sooner.


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 Post subject: Silent Partners
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:33 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Bloemfontein
Hi all

I know this is an old thread, but for the sake of anyone browsing the climb forum's old postings...
Please note that Wren Industries products (Silent Partner, Soloist, Solo Aid) are now available in SA from Mountain Pursuits. Contact us (mountainpursuits@gmail.com) to get details on the retailer nearest to you with these wonderful toys, or just for more info on how to use them.

ciao


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