When Trad climbing with a group of three people, using two half ropes, each second coming up on a half rope.

What is the consensus about this practice?

I know it happens, but is it the correct thing to do?

Second on 1 x Half Rope is fine and standard practice.
Leader however is always on 2 x half rope.
So if 2 people in a party of 3 want to lead, you'll have to untie the rope from the previous leader and tie to the next leader.

Second on 1 x double rope (marked with two interlocking circles like this ∞ ) is unacceptable.
You are unlikely to climb on double ropes in South Africa, but check when climbing on unfamiliar ropes.

Food for thought:
It is good if all climbers in a multipitch trad party have a basic understanding of, and carry the basic gear, to prussic/jummar/jug.

Thanks for the reply Hann.

I definitely had my definitions wrong, I thought the infinity symbol was for a twin rope and that a half and a double rope were the same thing.

Uhm, good point.

To clarify:

Half rope:
Symbol " 1/2 ".
Climb 2 ropes on leader, but can climb 1 rope on second
Clip 1 rope per biner/pro (Yes yes, I know the debate, but this is the standard)

Twin rope (I sometimes call it double, but Twin is the correct term)
Symbol: Infinity " ∞ " Leader and second on both ropes.
Clip both ropes simultaniously into a single biner. No debate.

For interest sake - when do you use which rope? what is the deciding factor? Thanks

Sport rope.
- Single Dynamic.
Most common rope in RSA
Usually for sport climbs.
Can be used for trad climbs as a single rope. Usually by Americans or if the gear is in a reasonably straight line.
You can also carry 2 x sport rope and use as per half rope. It is simply a weight and bulk issue.

Half Ropes.
Dominant in RSA for trad.
Most trad lines have scattered gear, so you'll need 2 ropes to keep them in a straight line.
Many trad decent have long raps, so you'll probably need 2 ropes.

Twin ropes.
I have no experience with twins.
In theory I understand they are generally used for ice.
Very thin, and the idea is to have 2 ropes for redundancy issues and rope drag.
They also have a positive effect on weight while still giving you long rap ability.

Anybody with experience care to comment?

Hi Hann

Seeing as you are giving out free advice. Would it be acceptable to climb trad on one single and one half rope. Using the single as a half rope for the purposes of reducing rope drag etc. As the ropes will be of differrent diametre could you still use a double overhand to connect for absailing?

_________________
Fat men are harder to kidnap

Ooh, sounds like a test.....

Not advice, but personal experience:
A couple of years ago I climbed with a 8.5 half and 10.2 single.
I was very poor.

Climbing:
It worked fine for climbing.

Joining:
I used a reef knot with single fisherman's as stopknots to join. (I still do this, even with half ropes of the same diameter....creature of habit I guess)
I suppose you can forgo the reef knot and use only a double fisherman.
Not sure about the double fisherman, nor about using an overhand. I can't see an obvious issue for either though.
Do you have any info on this?

Rapping:
Was not ideal. I found the ropes twisted....but it worked.

Thanks

Also having a bout of the poor just at the moment. The reef knot with the fishermans has always seemed to like a more substantial knot, but according to some study I read the double overhand was the (only) way to go. Don't know if differrent diameters make a differance.

_________________
Fat men are harder to kidnap

One reason why people climb trad on half ropes (as opposed to just using a single) is that half ropes exert less force on the gear (lower impact force e.g. Beal 10mm Tiger = 7.6kN, Beal 8.6mm Cobra = 5.1kN). I.e. less chance of ripping the kit. If you climb on two ropes and one of them is a sport rope then you lose this advantage on half your placements. Keep it in mind and try clip any sketchy kit to the trad line.

I have been doing some research and I was right about the rope markngs:

(1) is a single rope

(1/2) is a HALF (OR DOUBLE) rope

(∞) is a TWIN rope

So a Twin rope and a double rope are definitely NOT the same thing.

http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/ad ... tm#doubles

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=1440

http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/howt ... ystems.asp

http://www.chockstone.org/techtips/tworopes.htm