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 Post subject: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:03 pm 
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So its Monday and most are bored at the office.

Lets talk tents.

I would like to buy a tent soon.
Rather, I reeeeealy need to buy a new tent soon.

So I was considering a sturdy and robust 3 person for De Bosch, Kromrivier, Nuweberg.....Car camping.
At the same time I'm considering getting a superlight tech tent for the berg, krakadouw.....hiking.

So for car the options are:
K-Way's "Annapurna" at R3499.00
or
E3's "Escape" at R3080.00

Then for hiking:
K-Way Treklite at R1499.00 & 2.9kg
or
BD / Bibler I-Tent at R5904.00 & 1.95 kg

This can possibly turn into a shopping trip of R9403.
For 2 tents? Donner wetter...

What I'm wondering is:
1) Is it really necessary to spend 3grand on a tent for car camping?
- I really do not like getting wet inside my tent or the tent collapsing in high winds.

2) Is the price difference between the Bibler and the Treklite (R4401) really worth it.
- Doing the math it calculates paying R4 per gram saved.

Or should I just get
E3 Element Summit at R3265.00 & 4.4kg
or
K-Way Makalu at R2199.00 & 4.3kg
and be done with it?

Saving a possible R7204 in tent cost and gaining a extra 2.5kg in my pack....

And please, can anybody explain the difference between "Packed Weight", "Total Weight", "Min Weight" and "Average Weight"

- And yes, I have the SA Mountain mag at home with the tent review. I'll read it again tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Posts: 693
You should have bought the Annapurna a few years ago, I paid less than R1500 :cyclops:

Have a look at the Mountain Hardware Hammerhead, it looks useful and not too expensive by mountain hardware standards.

I think the different weights have something to do with all the guide ropes, extra pens and repair kits you don't necessarily have to carry with you.

For what its worth, the Annapurna is not worth lugging around unless you get someone to share it with and it's more than big enough to share with another male (unlike the Trek-lite).

A friend of mine has a Makalu that he likes well enough, but I remember it's a bitch to pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 766
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi Hann

There are a couple that you have missed:

Cadac Isodome - basically the same as the K-Way Makulu/E3 Summit/some old Mountain Hardware design. They also make a 3 man version. Not sure if they are still available. http://www.cadac.co.za

North Face - Mountain 25, again the same as the Cadac Isodome etc. R3.7K at the moment, buy it through Due South.
For a 3 man car camping tent look at the Rock 32. R1.5K

Why buy a more expensive tent? Build quality and weight. Then again I have only heard good things about E3. K-way... ...not so good, service can be bad too.

Rock empire tents used to be sold here, not sure if they are still.

If you can afford it buy an MSR.

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Nic


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:49 am
Posts: 46
Location: Cape Town
I've got a Kway Treklite II, tent, and so far I am quite happy with it. As Shorti mentioned, sharing can get a bit "cosy", but it's big enough to fit your rucksack etc. inside the tent itself at night if you are by yourself. If sharing, then storage would be under the flysheet - the disadvantage being that you'd need to make sure that your gear is on something waterproof and that will route water around your gear if it rains. However, it's quick and easy to pitch; I can pitch mine in around 5 to 10 minutes.

I haven't tested it in gale force winds or in monsoon conditions, but it has held up quite nicely during some rather wet and unpleasant nights. It probably doesn't have the same quality as say Black Diamond or North Face, but unless you are planning to spend lots of time at high altitudes in say the Drakensberg, you'd probably be ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Posts: 8
Hi Hann

I love the MSR we got. It's a 2 man tent. The entrance has a little alcove (great for shoes) and inside there's enough space for 2 with all gear for a week at Spitzkoppe (tried and tested). You can borrow it any time! They also have a 1 man version that looks great (and can squeeze in a second [very close] friend).

N


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:59 pm
Posts: 721
I cheaped out and got the 360Degree CoolMountain 2. Sleeps 2, vestibule each side, nasty orange colour, looks very much like its based on something by The North Face Image.
Has some nice features: Gear loft, snow flaps (in SA? really?) 2 internal mesh pockets that have 2 sub-pockets each. And cheap, R1400 from Outdoor warehouse. Fully packed weighs 2.9 kg but got it down to about 2.6kg without the spare cross pole and spare gear loft mesh thingy. Was very waterproof, with about 7 days of rain in 3 weeks, the only complaint was condensation on the inside of the non-breathe-but-very-waterproof flysheet.

And when I saw this: http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/The-North-Face-Quartz-22-Bx-Tent-2-Person-3-Season/TNF3823M.html I went rather sad that I didn't just buy the damn thing (the real North Face one). Dammit.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Posts: 164
I've got a Makalu that I'm quite happy with. It's a little on the heavy side, but I have done more than a few overnight hikes with it and loads of camping.

It fits one person and a persons worth of gear, or two people who love each other at least a little, quite comfortably.

I would have to disagree with shorti on the ease of the pitching. The tent clips into the fly sheet and when in this state the two can be set up/packed away as if it were one layer. I find it can be set up and packed away in less than five minutes. I know that the manual doesn't recommend this but as long as you clean it and make sure that it is nice and dry before you pack it away in your cupboard, it does no harm. Whenever I head trekking I always end up waiting for the rest of the crew to finish off with their tents.
If you are pitching it completely though, for gale-force winds, sheeting rain, perhaps a little snow, then it does take a little while longer to set up with all the pegs and guy lines.

I have yet to experience the poor service of K-way but considering that I have had the tent for about two years now, the quality cant be too bad.

There are two drawbacks that I have come across. The one is the condensation that builds up inside the fly sheet during the night if no groundsheet is used, and the other is all of the (mainly) unnecessary and for most situations, overkill, amount of guy lines that dangle around the sides (I think its about six or eight).

Anyway, enjoying it so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Posts: 11
Best places to buy?


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 593
@ Nic.
Ja, I'm familiar with the k-way service: Buying a Deuter, trying to get the broken zips replaced, buying a gps, trying to return it as the housing was substandard. And lets not start on the sales people's product knowledge.
Out of principal I'd prefer not to support k-way.

@ Nic & Nikki.
Thanks, I now have 2 to choose from. MSR Fury and Bibler I-tent.
Perhaps take one to sleep and the other as SPAM :jocolor:

Krakadouw has plenty caves, Tafelberg has spout cave, De Bosch has the Barn, Kromrivier has Challets. I have not been to the Berg since moving away....and I have a Bibler Bivy. Perhaps just make a breathing hole in the bottom for my girlfriend. :pig:

Looks like the E3 Escape is the way to go as car camping is lately my main activity.
(My oh my, I've started thinking like a sport climber)


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 248
The E3.

We took 4 of them on our expedition to Patagonia and they worked a treat.
Yes you can get lighter models for high mountains, at a price... but is less really more in a big storm on the 'berg or the Hex?

ant


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:23 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Gauteng
After retiring a Sunseeker (now Coleman) Isotec (2 man tent) which has been everywhere to 100% dry car camping duty I got the E3 Summit which has a similar 4 pole / 5 pole crossings design. It is noticeably smaller (shorter, much more narrow and less vestibule space) than the Isotec esp when trying to fit gear and people into the tent in the ‘Berg (a real pity). A bit on the heavy side, but you can do what Greg Divine did and remove all the pull tabs, glow in the dark lugs etc. and save a few grams (not much). It performed very well being buffeted for 3 days by very high winds at 4500m on an exposed neck in Kyrgyzstan (the tent has lots of tie-down cords).

Be careful about single walled tents in damp conditions and moderate temperatures. They are specialist tents and are less suited as general purpose tents. Not to mention the fact that if it gets damaged or wrecked you are going to kick yourself for a long time.

In the end there is no tent that can do it all and most end up with more than one tent which is used for different purposes.

Whatever you buy, take a good look at the tent floor. Tent floors are typically one of the heavy components of a tent and manufacturers “save” weight by using less durable and sometimes less waterproof material for the floor. Get (or make) a tent footprint if in doubt or just to protect the floor.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Posts: 102
I've got the Mountain Hardwear Trango 2,the mother of all tents.Yes,it's a bit to serious for a weekend camping trip,but you may plan a trip to the Himalaya one day,then this babe is the thing to have.I'll be wishing for the Viento Blanco on Aconcagua.Bought it for R3k on ebay.ebay with MMO is the answer for all your mountaineering needs!


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:01 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Pretoria
Real Name: Otto Wipplinger
I'd recommend the smaller K-way makalu as it firstly pitches the flysheet, and you can leave various pieces at home depending on the weather you expect. The first is a distinct advantage in rainy weather -- the bathtub floor isn't converted into a bath :wink: . Secondly, by leaving various parts at home you have a lightweight hiking option.

Another option to consider is the North Face Tadpole 2.3 weighs less than 2.2kg and withstands winds of 245km/h.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:48 am 
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Posts: 593
I've had a look at the North Face Tapole.
The 1500mm waterhead on the flysheet is a little concerning though.
Anybody except DueSouth stock it? I'd like to get a proper feel for size and not only look at the little scale model tents these guys have.

The Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 is pricy as I don't have any immediate plans for Aconcagua, but ja, it would be a good option.

Back to the E3 Escape.
It sleeps 4, so brilliant for 2 for relaxed De Bosch camping.
And should I head to the Berg, probably in a group of 4: 1 can carry the poles, 1 the flysheet, 1 the main tent and the 4the the whiskey :drunken:


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:02 am 
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:34 am
Posts: 192
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Brenda Marx
Can't believe the Annapurna's price has gone up so much! I bought mine also quite a few years ago (actually I think it was close to when it first came out) for about 1.5K. Because of al lot of use in the Karoo & Namib sun the plastic window in the fly sheet became perished/cracked. I took it back and they repaired it free of charge.
I've split it between 2 and 3 people hiking in the Fish River Canyons and it was fine. I use it at least 6 times a year for 2 nights plus, including almost all long weekends wherever possible.


Last edited by tygereye on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 34
Location: Joburg
Hey Hann

I'd recommend steering clear of the Tadpole.
My boyfriend bought one for our trip to Europe. So we've been using it on and off for about 5 months now.
I am totally unimpressed with the waterproofing. The thing has leaked a few times. A couple of times it's leaked through the bottom section. We have a ground-sheet and some rain collected between the groundsheet and the tent and made its way through the fabric of the bottom panel. A fair amount of it - enought to make a small puddle under my sleeping mat.
On other occasions we've had water come through the sides - when we were inside and brushed against the sides. I know - this will tend to happen when you touch the sides of most tents, but the Tadpole is so small that it's hard not to bump the walls when there's two of you inside. The gap between the inner and outer of the tents is small, so it compounds the problem.
Rain tends to collect on the top of the tent and pool there. Some people will say this depends on how well you pitch the thing but we've taken great care and still it happens.
The tent pegs are also more difficult to get into the ground, due to their shape. We've taken to collecting abandoned tent pegs and usuing those instead.
I googled it to find reviews recently and there are a lot of other people out there with similar whinges to me. There are also a lot of people who swear by the Tadpole but they seem to have older versions. This one is a newer model and I think perhaps the quality has taken a down turn.
It's very small inside. Two people is a squash. There's only one place in the tent where I can sit upright (and I'm not that tall.) Your packs don't fit inside with you - they have to live on the porch - and then they get wet :)

On the positive side? It's nice and light, and quick and easy to pitch. I don't think these features outweigh the other issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 766
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi again

The K-way Makulu thing where you just pitch the fly is nice until: 1) You split the tent to reduce the carried weight per person when hiking, then its a pain! 2) It starts snowing and the snow builds up on the fly between the poles and then it collapses...
It does have the advantage however that when it does collapse and the poles break, they aren't going to stab holes in the tent fabric.

You can borrow the I-tent anytime I'm not using it. And it'll have a vestible soon.

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Nic


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
Hi everyone,

I just joined and have a few questions to add to the discussion. I am an avid hiker and am looking to buy a tent for multiday hikes. Question is which one as there are several brands (and sizes) available.

I have already ruled out the more expensive brands ie Bibler et al as I won't be hitting Kilimanjaro any time soon. Yet two factors are critical: stability in wind and rainproofing as these are still common South African conditions. I have narrowed the list down to a couple of choices. K-Way seems to be the way to go as some people swear by them, yet others have their issues. The CUM store assistants are no use in providing information.

Is there something about K-way the average consumer might not be aware of? What about Sportsmans Warehouse's 360 degree brand?

Basically it'll be me and the wife, or me and my ten year old. I'm a pretty strong guy so 1kg here and there won't make a massive difference. The Treklite II sounds the ticket - people I've met that own one only rave about it. Makalu doesn't seem any bigger but is "apparently" better in wind and rain. The Annapurna has extra weight but is super reliable. On the flip side 360 Degree's lightweight two man is similar in dimensions to the Treklite but cost only R900 and weighs only 1.8kg ... and so it goes on and on...

Obviously there's a limit as to how much tent one really needs. I will be using it in all seasons and in all weather but only in this country. Your thoughts are much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Posts: 593
bigseb

I did plenty research and settled on the K Way Annapurna as I'll predominantly use it for car camping.

If I was planning on hiking I'd either go for the K Way Makalu or the E3 Element Summit. I have more than one friend who uses both and seem to be very happy.
The sturdy construction is similar in both above tents, and the external poles, as noted by Nic, is only a issue if you are planning on camping in the snow.
I used an external pole, clip in inner tent for years and was very happy with it.

So,
If you can afford:
MSR Fury

If you can afford and is traveling light.
Bibler I tent (But you sound like a big guy. So check the lenght)

For car camping, affordablity and space. Or if you are feeling REALLY strong.
K Way Annapurna. This also has "life time" garantee on zips and factory defects. I understand the perspex rooflight perishes in time, but K Way meds without to much hassle.
Or
E3 of similar size.
Smaller 'bell though.
But little cheaper.

For all round:
K Way 2 man or the similar 2 man E3
- I'll be wary of the Trecklite. The single opening and the wind-directional design does not impress me, there was a ferrino on the market years ago of similar shape and many failures, and it is red.
But then again, I have another friend who loves his.
Pity about salespeople at K Way though.

As for the Outdoor Warehouse bunch.
I'd rater buy their Ferrinos...

I looked at the North Face, but was not too impressed (in my price range)
And a friend has a Mountain Hardware, which is really techical an cool and skin-and-a-half design. But it sounds to techical for what you have in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
Hann,

Thanx for your prompt reply. I have decided to go to the CUM Adventure Centre at Canal Walk tomorrow and have them set up all three next to one another. That should give me a better idea. To be honest I have been leaning toward the Makalu... never hurts to get someone else's opinion, eh?

Ta again


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
Just checked out the Fury and Summit. I think the Fury is a bit too expensive - R8500 - for my needs. The Summit, though, has just become a serious contender. The price is good and the specs are excellent. Thanx for that link.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
Checked out four tents today. The Annapurna, Makalu, Treklite II and E3 Element Summit. Here is my opinion of them:

:pukel: Makalu: I was very disappointed when I saw it set up. It's tiny! I also don't like how the flysheet is 'inside the cage' as it were and the inner tent is then clipped onto the flysheet. Doesn't look too reliable in my opinion as everything seems quite far from the poles (this may also contribute to it's very cramped cabin).

:thumleft: Trekilte II: The Seb, he like. Seems just as stable as the the first one. The cabin seemed far roomier though. Only downside that I can see is that there is only one entrance. That's no biggie though. Currently in second place.

:thumleft: E3 Element: This is currently my number one choice. The specs are fantastic, the price is good. Has downfalls though. A) It's heavy (about 4,5kg) for a two man and B) it seems really awkward to pitch.

:? Annapurna: This tent is huge. Too huge for my needs. Cost about the same as the E3 (weighs the same too) but is just plain overkill.

Trelikte II for R1500, 2,7kg
versus
E3 Element for R3200, 4,5 kg

Tough call...


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 766
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Have a look at the Black diamond mirage, only 2 kg,

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... ers/mirage

Cape Union are selling it for R3799, it maybe cheaper through CApe Storm or MMO

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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
he BIGseb

well, you can't have it all in one tent..... reminds me about guys giving bad ratings to climbing shoes because they bought one size too big / small :D

i'm a BIG annapurna fan since:
having extra space at the same weight is a bargain in most people's eyes
contrary to some opinions i do not think 5kg is that much to carry - split between 2 or 3 people and it becomes easy dude
you can squeeze 4 people in there or have 2 big dudes + their gear sleep very comfy
the big vestubles are king when you do the 4-day-singing-in-the-rain hike. man, you can set-up your dragonfly in that front vest and cook dinner while playing cards (and have urpacks stashed in the rear vest.)
it is a bomber mountain tent. bring-on any storm.

sooo, i methinks your "overkill" comment is just in relation to the size of ur feet :wink: i've carried my annapurna many times into the Berg and the "extra" kilo is well paid for by the additional comfort and space.

pity the price has more than doubled since i bought mine.....

ps: lightweight tents are by nature less durable.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
yeah, 4,5kg isn't the end of the world but spec-wise it doesn't come close to the e3 element. Knowing me I'll prolly mull it over a thousand more times before I make a purchase though.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:06 pm
Posts: 25
Interesting how the bigger outdoor retailers seem to lose their "soul" ( personal touch & staff technical knowledge ) where the smaller shops tend to capitalise on this, but never realy have a huge range of products & sizes due to insuficiant capital. catch 22 realy?. to be honest what climber would want to be stuck in a shop when they could be climbing? (just an obsevation, proberbly not woth the post)


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
for those that are following this discussion check out the november 2009 issue of getaway. on pages 38-39 you'll see a whole lot of annapurnas on the slopes of kilimanjaro.


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 10
Still busy deciding... :?

Here's another question: Should a flysheet go all the way to ground or stop slightly short? Take, for example, the Treklite. Its flysheet stops about 7cm short of the gound. Other tents, like the ones with snow flaps, have flysheets that not only reach the ground completely all the way around but actually lie flat on the ground. I have heard the snowflap type are better suited to highwind conditions as the wind cannot get any purchase under the flysheet and rip the whole lot out of the ground...


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
ja swaer, i think the shorter flysheet is only on the 3-season tents - by use-of-design less likely to be stuck in a mjor storm or snow. probably saves a few grams as well. and keeps the rain perfectly at bay (btw, i've pitched tents like that in fairly heavy storms without problems - the flysheet is too low above the ground to cause any major wind lift).


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 Post subject: Re: Tents
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:51 pm
Posts: 10
Was wondering if anybody has any comments about the Mountain Hardwear Drifter 2? It seems a tad narrow but reasonably priced at MMO.


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