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Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:05 pm
by mokganjetsi
damn right C4s it is! if we can't fight over politics or religion we'll fight over cams :lol:

seriously now, cams aren't rockets or engines - it works on very simple principles and the bells-and-whistles give or take a bit on the edges. there's only that much to refine. i doubt that a C4 would have held brian's fall. 99% of the equation is surface contact; camming angle; rock quality & cam material. my guess is that mastercams or totem cams might have held because of their smaller camming angle. but who knows.

the essential difference between C4s and dragons are preferences. and price. and dragons has a way cooler name. :mrgreen:

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:24 pm
by Hann
Who has experiance with omega pacific cams?

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:12 pm
by mokganjetsi
i've placed federico's omega pacific link cams a few times. they feel surprisingly solid (only weighted it on a stance though); has absolutely insane range; can't place them in shallow features. 2 or 3 link cams designated to set up stances is a worthy addition to any rack. the range almost guarantees that you will have at least one good fit on a stance. it's a pretty bleak to arrive at a shaky stance only to find you already placed the cams you need to set up anchor. on lead i will much rather reach for a regular cam, but that's just familiarity speaking.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Camming-D ... c-Link-Cam

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:28 pm
by smityb
I've also considered the omega pacific link cams, I think they would be nice to have 1 or 2 on your rack as a "get out of jail free card" in really desperate situations and to build stances.

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:58 pm
by AndrewP
I have 6 omega link cams: 3 yellow and 3 purple.
The range is incredible, and they are the ultimate in gadgets. I regularly climb with 2 of the purple ones. With smaller sizes, it is nice to have a single cam that covers such a large range (I can leave behind a cam or 2 but still ahev the same overall rack). They do work well as a 'joker' to keep for the next stance.
I last took a yellow one on a climb with me was about a year ago - they are just so heavy that for the same weight I can take 1x yellow + 1x red cam. Same range, but double the pieces, so that is a no brainer. The big link cams are useful though if are are lining up at the base of a crack that is long and parallel enough to need 6-8 pieces of the same size.

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:12 pm
by robertbreyer
Re: Omega Pacific:
I have heard first-hand from a customer that he tested them and the Omega cam popped out. Repeatedly. They simulated a test fall, good placement, etc. This was from someone whose opinion I value.

Besides, this discussion is a bit of a mute point since they aren't being imported any more.
Trust Darwin a.k.a. capitalism to sort things out.

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:22 pm
by Hann
robertbreyer wrote: I have heard first-hand from a customer that he tested them and the Omega cam popped out. Repeatedly. They simulated a test fall, good placement, etc. This was from someone whose opinion I value.
Really?

Wow!
When did you speak to this customer?
Who did you speak to?
Where did they test it?
Did they try another cam in the same placement?

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:43 pm
by mokganjetsi
an interesting & sobering thread - on both link cams and cams in general.

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthr ... e_purple_5

"As for gear-makers responsibility to ensure that the (nearly blind) faith we would like to place in their gear is justified, it is important to remember that climbing gear cannot be engineered to withstand industrial safety margins and still be carried up the hill. The nature of the endeavor forces engineering decisions that could prove catastrophic in the field, and climbers need to understand that. I am not trying to excuse shoddy quality control, but simply say that fond as we may be of the concept of bombproof gear; it isn't, never was, and never will be.

Climbers' faith in cams has certainly been justified over the years by many successful performances, but on the other hand cams do fail on occasion in spite of being judged good. The fact that they don't break more often may simply be a reflection that the rock will usually give way first. It seems plausible that the link cam stayed in and broke while most other cams would have pulled out. If this is true, then what you have in all cases is a cam failure. Psychologically, people are far more likely to accept an extraction as part of the game than breakage, even if the breakage occurs, paradoxically, because of extra holding power.

I don't know whether any of these assertions are true in the case at hand, but they are certainly true in general: the ability of cams to hold and not break is dependent on a host of conditions, only some of which are realistically under a climber's control. Any time a cam is placed suboptimally, the chances of failure go up, and honestly, we really have no idea how much."

Re: BD c4 vs DMM Dragons vs Wild country Heliums

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:12 am
by Marshall1
:idea: