See the link below, it explains quite nicely why BD don't make camalots with a double loop sling that you can vary the length of.

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... ts-and-c3s

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Happy climbing
Nic

True to their usual spirit of innovation, DMM have addressed this issue in their new Dragon Cam.

........ http://www.dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?pid=4&pid2=249

..... s'very nice!!

i have been wainting for DMM to post something to this effect. if you would rather we take this outside i will understand.

The double axel system is surely the way forward, pity BD's patient expired. Both Camelots and Dragons use " Ray Jardines original 13.75° constant camming angle that maximises holding power without compromising range", and their sizes are almost identical with BD offering 2 cams bigger and 2 cam smaller in the range. i think just about all cams available use this angle.

Their differance is the rear end and functionality. BD wants a device that is easier to place while DMM wants a device that has an extendable sling. whether you would rather a good placement or less friction on the rope is your choice. if you read the BD artical mentioned above you will read it makes referance to R&D. BD staff know about double threading and could have designed their cams to include the feature, but the sacrifice are other features that BD values.

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If you aren't willing to solve your own problems, how can you expect others to?

If by "outside" you mean a cam showdown at the Ledge....... then, hell yeah, I wanna take this outside. I assume Pumped "To the Max" Placements, and Huge "Screaming" Whippers would be the two main contenders.

If by "outside" you mean parking lot fisticuffs, then no. You're bigger than me.

At least you didnt waint patently in vaint.

"pity BD's patient expired."

Poor guy. What happened to him?

Jono I don't think the ledge or any crag will solve this- not only am I bigger then you but I climb harder too! Suppose this means you need more faith in your gear

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If you aren't willing to solve your own problems, how can you expect others to?

Wow - them's fighting words Warren - mentioning that you climb harder...kinda like walking up to a lady a mate is about to come right with and saying "don't bother - mine's bigger". Or in the words of Zaphod Beeblebrox: "Hey! Is this guy boring you? Why don't you come talk to me instead? I'm from a different planet."

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I don't think, therefore I'm Not

I think you guys should have a Scrabble contest, my money is on Jono.

Jono I have seen what you have done on trad, I will tie onto your rope anyday.
Not Many people climb harder on trad, than what they do on sport.

.....anyway we are moving away from the facts.

Fact: Both BD and DMM have double axle cams, one has an extendable sling, the other not.
Fact: Different people look for different things when buying gear, let them decide which they prefer as opposed to beating our chests and trying to form peoples opinion for them (which is impossible when it comes to climbers).

... DMM wants, and has, both :

To quote from http://www.dmmclimbing.com/news.asp?nid=260&ngroup=1:

"The cams have evolved a great deal over the last eight months, with the biggest development being the anodised aluminium thumb grip for secure and easy placement. Having a concave and grooved surface, the thumb termination also allows you to quickly place the unit with either your thumb or the palm of your hand. The latter option is likely to be particularly useful in winter if wearing big gloves.

This cleverly designed thumb grip houses a doubled 8mm dyneema sling. It extends to 25 cm, with the clear advantage of reducing the number of quick draws that have to be carried. Each end of the sling can be clipped and used as a runner if necessary while still retaining full strength"

...and believe me, those thumb terminations are very comfy. And solid!

Warren, if you like, I can pop by one day to show you the Dragon, in the hot-forged flesh so to speak.

BD oh BD,i love you to the end!!!