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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:11 pm 
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What is the hardest graded route a South African has opened sport climbing?

Ebert


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Probably one of the under graded things that clinton has opened


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:22 pm 
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Graded at?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 am 
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Not sure about what Clinton may have undergraded, but officially Mazawattee is SA's hardest route.

FA: Adam Ondra

SA Ascents (in order):
Paul Brouard
Arjan De Kok
Clinton Martinengo

I have heard (international) rumours casting doubt grade of the route. Adam gave the grade (at age 16) and a few other top climbers have attempted the route calling it hard.
Having watched Adam send the route and spoken to all the guys above, I'd be surprised if the grade changed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:46 am 
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Thanks Justin, but its easy to repeat an established line, the mental battle has already been won by someone else. The focus here is on who has opened the hardest lines as a South African. I ask because of a line thats coming close to an end that will be at least 34, but it could also be 35:p its surely that hardest thing ive ever been on yet my style completely (20m horizontal roof). Brian rates way harder than Shear Force(established 34 by killian).

Im trying to get to the question... is it best to claim the sandbag, to ensure a solid solid grade, or just give it what you think it should be and accept what happens when it finally gets repeated 5 years down the line?

Ebert
Damn 1st world problems:p


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:01 am 
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This route at the Man Cave in Chosspile is hard. There's no delicate way to do it. The crux is probably 8A/+ after climbing a really tenuous bit of 28 climbing to a point where you stuff fingers into a little gap in the rock. You don't get much back before the crux. After the crux it's probably 8a to the chains.

Definitely the SA version of DREAM CATCHER

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:28 am 
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Forket wrote:
Im trying to get to the question... is it best to claim the sandbag, to ensure a solid solid grade, or just give it what you think it should be and accept what happens when it finally gets repeated 5 years down the line?
Damn 1st world problems:p


IMO: It's a sport route so go for an accurate grading, otherwise we may have to move our grading up another notch (again!) to keep things accurate on the international grading system.

The route sounds really cool :cyclops:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:50 am 
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Steve Bradshaw (Snr) opened Where I Stood (34) - Montagu and Hey Jupiter (34) - Cape Town (both unrepeated so far)
Dave Richardson opened Helium Dreams (34) - Umgeni Valley (second ascent by P. Brouard)
Paul Opened Thanatos (?34) at the Wave Cave... (no one can even do the move...! and it comes after Barricade...)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:55 am 
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Quote:
Thanks Justin, but its easy to repeat an established line, the mental battle has already been won by someone else.


Ai tog Ebert.

Go and repeat La Dura Dura, Sharma and Ondra cracked the mental code, subsequently it is receiving multiple ascents daily.

With one route you can, and probably will, become the best climber in SA, you are almost there, it will be a significant moment, for everyone.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:34 am 
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Be interesting to hear Paul's opinion on Thanatos vs Mazawattee grading!?

Cool pic of Cody Roth on 'Where I Stood' in Oorlogs Kloof --> http://www.climbing.co.za/gallery2/albu ... oof_02.jpg

Related: Steve Bradshaw sends his project in Oorlogs Kloof

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:18 pm 
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@Brian: Was good having your psych on the line :) In a combination of you and Falco on the route, I think its obvious that this one is a dooozy:)

@Justin: Its difficult to be accurate, with the only route i've tried that mildly come close to the style is Duende, 32, Montagu, but its about 4-5 times longer, on smaller holds. Picture below to show if Cody was on it:P

@Roger: Thanks for the response, will check those routes out and chat to those people. Wish I could go to the Wave Cave:'( Its my dream :wink:

@Logic: One day I will try, for now student budget leaves me to try harder unestablished things in my immediate area, as I've done most of everything around, new is the only option. Sometimes I try be serious. Maybe you should try sometimes lighten up a bit :pirat: The best climber will not hold their position for very long once the children step into the rock climbing game. Only need their coaches to realize that they can learn way faster and easier by climbing on rock, with a larger passion for the sport being an added likely benefit.

peace
eT


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Nattrass wrote:
Paul Opened Thanatos (?34) at the Wave Cave... (no one can even do the move...! and it comes after Barricade...)

Actually Clinton figured it out and came pretty close when he was working in Durban a few years back. If my fuzzy memory doesn't fail me Simon Lowe also managed the hard move - the rest of the route isn't too bad...

Forket wrote:
The best climber will not hold their position for very long once the children step into the rock climbing game. Only need their coaches to realize that they can learn way faster and easier by climbing on rock, with a larger passion for the sport being an added likely benefit.

:thumleft:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Ebert,

I experience fleeting moments of "lightness" in my otherwise brutally dense reality when you introduce seriousness to your disposition, thank you kindly sir.

Good luck with the route1, oh, and the budgetary woes2.(hopefully 1 solved before 2)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:33 am 
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Ebert I agree with you that access to rock is often what holds back kids, and so is the willingness of parents and mentors to help. Having said this I coach a handful of kids twice a week and have learnt a simple lesson true to them as it is true to anyone else: psych is the difference between potential and reality. If they want it enough they will make things happen.

Teenagers are often good enough and many are mature enough to be taken by mentors/adult friends to rock: There was a kid spending at least 4 days in the gym who caught the eye of local boulderers and they offered to take him out, now at 13 he climbs 7B and is sure to climb 8a/A in the next year (if he wants to). He is psyched, but more importantly he is a wonderful person, and so the adults are happy to take him out.

There are so many ways one can give back to the community, but one of the easiest is taking a kid under your wing for the weekends. You become a hero and a mentor to these kids and have the capacity to shape lifestyles and even directions in life. I know you are studying Geology, like Andrew Pedley.

To be honest Ebert while you're psych is unquestionable, I do wonder if you are mature enough to take on such a responsibility. Certainly if I were I parent and read all your posts on this forum I would be reluctant to let to take my child away for weekends: they would return cynical and with a negative disposition. It was a bold move for your sponsors to choose you, but maybe they know you better than me, and see that this is all a show and that you are indeed a good person to represent them. Please prove me wrong, and them right.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Wow, the love. Warren, to some extent I've grown up since you last saw me. Maybe its just difficult to show that in a paragraph of writing on a forum when the topic is mostly controversial. I'm still young and learning. Its in my natural habit to cause a stir. So is it in my habit to push hard and keep trying. Maybe I choose to be difficult sometimes, but not always. I take people climbing on rock 3 days a week if I don't join them. I've run the university of Pretoria's climbing/adventure/hiking club. I think I can claim being the person to climb on rock the most frequently in the past 5 years in South Africa. I'm a student, I'm using my time wisely :wink: Sorry if I've offended you. Dont take my rants personally. You even like a good rant:P

I'm pritty sure my sponsor keeps track of my rampages, or he wouldnt be making fun of me during April fools. I represent the brand I wear to the purest of my abilities for they provide me with the best rubber, cord and metal for the job. I keep pushing the bar we have in SA and will keep doing it in and off the wall. I organize events and I'm out there doing it 24/7.

Some times, I just want a simple answer or a few answers on a forum post. Have you ever tried grading a 20m roof problem? I'm asking for insight. Not trying to start an international woman's debate

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:19 pm 
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.........deep sigh........

Ebert want everyone to understand that he believes HE is THE FUTURE.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Thanks the invite to comment Justin.

My opinion - just do the route first - chat about the grade later. Not a big fan of talking about how hard a route is based on these calculations. Could easily result in an overgraded route. You become so convinced of its difficulty that it becomes self affirming and you stop looking for better more efficient sequences. Your minds going, "its meant to be hard". 8c+ is supposed to feel this difficult. Oops, its not anything til you climb it. Giving it a fixed grade now is not helpful.

I think its more useful to think, well how would it feel to [insert big name]? Damn easy so suck it up.

You'll have a much clearer idea of the grade just after sending. If not, try slot it in with grades you already know.

Regarding Thanatos vs Mazawatee. Mazawatee is obviously harder. Thanatos would surely have been done already if it were anywhere else. Still, I think it is 8c. I'm more convinced of that than of Maz being solid 8c+ (given all the good rests). Could be they're opposite ends of 8c. But difficult to say with any certainty given the time elapsed between them


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:15 pm 
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@logic: i cant reason with you

@paulB: It makes sense not to think about a grade beforehand, but yet I do it. I cant compare it to anything I've done because of the style difference. I will however send it and then worry about the rest. Thanks for the heads up, good beta:)

eT


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:24 pm 
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1. As PaulB says, grading first ascents in your mind before you do them is dangerous. You end up believing your own hype. I know I do.
2. Grades are used as weapons. Give the new route a big number and you can score some temporary prestige points (The Winner), while dreading the day it gets downgraded (damn, now you are The Loser). Undergrade your latest testpiece and either (a) resent the lack of recognition you will now receive or (b) hope like hell the next person to try it gets stopped at the first bolt (so you could end up being The WInner, or at worst better and resentful). Repeat someone's big number route and then downgrade it mercilessly and you can beat the living hell out of them with surplus bits of grade you just snagged and be declared The Winner.

So if you really would like to be The Winner, your odds are better by sandbagging and downgrading. If you don't mind whether you win or lose, try to give it the right number, enjoy the satisfaction of having done the route and move on to the next thing.

It is worth noting that it's a shedload easier to pitch up at an established route, do it and downplay it as if it were the most trifling of tasks than it is to invest the time, money and effort in establishing a new one. Smacks a little of thoughtless and selfish arrogance.

Apparently I opened two 34s. If I had a little more time and computer savvy I would add a picture of myself doing one of them with Doge's face (check your knowledge of memes if this makes no sense) superimposed and Such grade So testpiece Many power Very muscle and Wow scattered around the image. That would probably place the importance of the grades in about right perspective.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Forket wrote:
I think I can claim being the person to climb on rock the most frequently in the past 5 years in South Africa


Wow, that's one heck of a statement to make....so you keep track of how often everyone else all over the country climbs on rock....With out a doubt you are one of the most active climbers in the country, and one of the few at the top of the grade scale....I'm just surprised anyone would make such a bold statement.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:00 pm 
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I think a statement like that requires foresight and a diary. Brian Weaver gets about 150 days in a year working full time, and I know many students who have done over 180. For me Brian is the most impressive in context of the job. My guess though is you have competition from random people like Clifford Hakimi who don't spend as much time trolling these forums as you because he is out climbing.

Stand to correction on this, but I thought the hardest trad route in the country was opened by a Saffa?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Well Im not some hotshot grade whore but Id have to agree with Paul's assessment that Mazawatee is not 8c+. Ive been up it and there is only one move that fits the 8c category preceded and followed by superb rests and otherwise much easier climbing. I would suspect that 8c+ is a lot more sustained.

Anyway - seriously Erbet, a whole thread just to see if you are the best - why not just post: "I AM THE GREATEST" then we all know what you are really trying to say! :wink: :) Grades should always be as accurate as you can manage to estimate (sandbagging is a complete wank!). All of these top end routes will only have the grade confirmed once many ppl have done them - which in our neck of the woods will take a VERY long time. In the meanwhile any grade given is just guess work and conjecture - so its pointless getting to worked up about it all.

That said that line looks SICK!!!!! And yeah would most likely clock in as one of the hardest in the country - the only stuff Ive seen that steep around here is up at Pipeline. Send that thing dude! :thumleft:

PS if you want 9's and don't mind a bit of a walk - the crag left of Yellowwood has steep thin (small holds) rock soaring up for 40-80m, lots of lines all f-ing hard and very sustained.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:37 pm 
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I'm done posting on this site. All I wanted was some route names. Next time you climb one of my routes, its hard because you pissed me off.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:01 pm 
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I say less than a month and you've posted about some other stupid topic on this site. Under one or more of your forum accounts.

People that act the way you do on this site, really make me realize why sports climbers have the rep they do.

Is climbing really just about the grades? Who is the most badass rock spider out on the crags? Isn't climbing about the thrill, the adventure, meeting new people and learning skills and techniques that become invauluble during your first ever epic, sharing you're own lessons, skills and experiences with others, knowing a little more about rope work other than sloppy belaying and tying in, nature, self fulfillment and so on and so on?

If you so badly need the acknowledgement Ebert... You have done so well. Seriously. Good on you man. You've worked hard and you'll soon be reaping the rewards.

Funny how I never hear Jimbo, Joe, Goshia, Hector, and so many others beat their chests.

Lastly Ebert. The first words of this particular topic:
What is the hardest graded route a South African has opened sport climbing?

Ebert

How does that translate to all you wanted was route names?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:09 am 
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I can't read into Erbet's posts what Frank & Greg did. Are you sure you guys are not reading too hard? All I read is excitement, enthusiasm & quest.

Greg perhaps to consider reserving your comment till you have sent Mazawatee.

Erbet, fact is grades & FAs are important. Deny-ers are deceitful hippies. I have a list of (+-60)bolted lemons (nasty hard projects) that can be gladly donated to your quest. PPM me your e mail address.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:33 am 
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Frank, if you read the post of Ebert's, all he did was ask the question who opened which hard lines in SA? It was a legitimate question. Then afterwards he signed his name seeing as it's not listed in his profile on the left.

Greg, this line in JHB is hard. Could be as hard as Mazawattee, I haven't put much time in on either but I can tell you with certainty that this one here is 8c at the minimum and it won't be an easy 8c.

Ebert was asking for genuine input from strong FA climbers in SA. He got great advice from Steve and Paul. Dude, ignore everyone else. That is definitely the advice you were looking for.

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