Helmets

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Climbing safety topics and accident/incident discussions.
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

That would be ideal but if a person can't afford a mountaineering helmet then they need to find a realistic alternative. As it been mentioned before it is better to use a hard hat or industrial climbing helmet than use nothing. I think the biggest worry with climbing is a small rock falling from above you and landing on your head and if you not wearing head protection it can do a lot of damage. An industrial climbing helmet has straps and you can put straps on a hard hat.

I read on trad girl that many of the Amerincan National Standard Institution requirements for a hard hat are the standards used for many climbing helmets.


mokganjetsi
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Post by mokganjetsi »

looking at the branded climbing helmets - it really does not seem that the materials are space age (hard plastic and polystyrene) or that the design is rocket science. fairly basic in fact. surely it can be produced locally and at a much lower cost? me thinks we're paying big bucks for brand/image-value when protecting our heads. doubt that it costs more than a R100 to produce a helmet (maybe even far less).
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justin
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Post by justin »

About UIAA and CE helmet certification
By Matt Stanley

Union Internationale des Associations d’Alpinisme (UIAA) and European Community (CE) certification.

The shop salesperson puffs up and says, “Oh, yeah, that helmet’s UIAA and CE-certified.” You think, ‘That’s nice, but what does that mean? For all I know, they could be hucking the helmets at a brick wall, seeing how scratched they get, and calling it good.’ Chances are the salesperson probably also doesn’t know what those labels really signify. Fortunately for our skulls, the certifications involve a battery of elaborate trials that test a helmet’s impact absorption and penetration resistance.
In the lab, the helmet (three samples are tested per helmet model, and each sample must pass) is mounted on a wooden form that simulates the human head, with a load sensor located in the head-form’s neck. Of primary importance is the helmet-top impact test, which drops a 5-kilogram weight (called a striker) with a 50mm-radius blunt business end onto the helmet’s top from a height of 2 meters. The resulting force on the neck’s load sensor can’t exceed 8 kiloNewtons (kN) for the UIAA and 10kN for the CE.
“Hold on!” you say. “You lost me at kiloNewton.“ A kiloNewton is a measure of force, where 1kN equals about 225 pounds. Thus 8kN is about 1800 pounds and 10kN is about 2250 pounds. It’s very important to note that the helmet-top impact test doesn’t measure the amount of force a helmet can withstand; it measures how much force is transmitted to your neck. The UIAA test is more strict — not the reverse, which you might assume by simply reading the 10kN/8kN numbers. Seven of the 10 helmets we reviewed are UIAA certifed.
Front-, side-, and rear-impact tests are performed by tilting the helmet 60 degrees in the direction of the incoming blow, then dropping the 5kg striker onto the helmet from a height of 50cm. As with the helmet-top test, the force on the neck’s load sensor can’t exceed 8kN for the UIAA and 10kN for the CE.
For the penetration test, a cone-shaped 3kg striker with a .5mm tip is dropped 2 meters onto the top of the helmet. The result is a simple pass/fail — while the striker can penetrate the shell of the helmet, it cannot touch the head-form.
The helmet’s stability (also called front-and-rear roll-off) is tested by dropping a 10kg weight separately onto the front and rear of the helmet. The degree of displacement is recorded, but to pass the test, the helmet must simply stay on the head-form after being struck.
It is important to note that test results can vary from lab to lab due to inconsistencies in how each lab adjusts the helmet’s fit and suspension on the head-form. This is an issue of some discussion in the climbing manufacturing world, one that will likely be addressed by the UIAA in the near future.

Source: www.climbing.com
justin@CapeTownClimbing.com
ant
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Post by ant »

Tristan wrote a good response to this exact question which was posed about a pic on the front cover of SA mountain a while ago (or was it Tony about a pic of Tristan on Dangermouse?)

Essentially the answer was - yes helmets are a good idea, but each to his own, and a mag / website is there to allow people a glimpse of what is going on. Monkey see does not equal monkey do.
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

The media is the most powerful weapon in the world and it does influence people and there is evidence to back this, what to wear, how to look etc, as I have mentioned before. \"The media is not jut entertainment, it is pushing certain groups, indivituals ideas and values\". This was first said by an American about 30+ years ago. The media keeps sending you hidden messages such as 'If you want to be cool' 'if you want to be accepted', you have to be like this!

Young people want to be like their role models, so they will copy what their role models do. Peer pressure is real and if the so called market leaders(the top climbers) are pushing certain ideas,others will follow.

You learned certain behaviour from your parents, thats why they say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The evidence actually says monkey see, monkey does do.


The U.S army did research where they showed soldiers video's of real recorded violence and they found it made them more aggressive soldiers. This proves, what you see affects you.

The Pentagon has told Hollywood if they want to use their army grounds to shoot war films, they have to show US soldiers in a positive light, why, because they understand the influence the media has on people.

Pyschologists have said that the media does affect people.

Mugabe and other dictators in past and now have used the media to brainwashed people.

If the media doesn't influence people then why isn't hate speech allowed in this country and some other places?

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~ker/scholarly_research.htm
mokganjetsi
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Post by mokganjetsi »

he drifter you lost me there man.

justin, impressive testing on helmets i concede BUT, look closely at the construction - no super design carbon compound item in your hands. seems like fairly basic construction and materials are all that is needed to give you an item that will pass the test. anyways, wuz just hoping some local manufacturer would step up to the plate @ R200 a helmet.
st0ne
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Post by st0ne »

justin, impressive testing on helmets i concede BUT, look closely at the construction - no super design carbon compound item in your hands. seems like fairly basic construction and materials are all that is needed to give you an item that will pass the test. anyways, wuz just hoping some local manufacturer would step up to the plate @ R200 a helmet.
Firstly, you are wrong about the design of such helmets. While they may look simple, the amount of R&D money spent on such an item will astound you. Just because it looks simple, does not mean that it is.
That said, the actual tooling costs to manufacture a metal die to mould a plastic helmet will run into the hundreds of thousands. Bear in mind that it's not only a mold for the outer shell, but also for the polystyrene insert, which would also require assembly, which would be a further cost.

Add to this the cost of having tests and certifications done [both locally and worldwide - as it would need to be exported to cover the costs of development and manufacture] and it's easy to see that it's not at all viable for any local designer or manufacturer to make a specialized item like this. Even if you were to have the tooling and molding done in China it would far exceed the profit.

Climbing is a tiny sport in SA and thus there would be far too few climbers around to justify a locally made helmet, especially since companies like Petzl and BD are making top notch, proven products that would only cost you a few hundred rand more.

Since climbing is such a specialized sport, and the cost of a few quickdraws would be the same as a helmet, it's plain to see that climbers should rather just save up and buy the best helmet on the shelf. Most other parts of the body can be healed, however, a brain that has been damaged by a falling rock will limit your entire life and while it might look cool to climb without one, who in their right mind cares about looking cool in the hills? who are we trying to impress.

Lastly, those folks who say that a cycling or construction helmet would work as well are very wrong. These helmets are designed for a different purpose. Just because they may look the same does not mean they are.

People, get real and protect yourselves. Would you ride a motorbike without a helmet? No, so why here? I agree with Rastaman about the photo, however, why should this only apply to trad climbing? All climbers should be wearing a lid, the exception being perhaps bouldering.
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

There are more similarities between a hard hat, industrial climbing helmet and a mountaineering helmet than a mountaineering helmet and a motorbike helmet. To throw a motorbike helmet into the equation is not logical. A motorbike helmet was never made to protect you from objects falling from above onto your head, while a hard hat, a mountaineering helmet and industrial climbing helmet was. The similarity between a hard hat, a mountaineering helmet and industrial climbing helmet is that they are all made to protect your head from objects falling from above onto your head.

I understand the cost of manufacturing. I would think an entry level mountaineering helmet could be sold for about R350. I assume there is a big mark up on a climbing helmet from when it leaves the factory and when it is sold in the shop. Correct me if I am wrong.
Stuff are made in China by companies because then there profit margin is much bigger. We don't know if product development costs are exaggerated to justify the price of products or if they are genuine. I would think helmet technology is not new. It's not like climbing helmets are new products on the market. How much new research is done, I don't know, I have to take the manufacturers word.

I would climb on a mountain wearing an industrial climbing helmet or a hard hat with straps if I was unable to afford an mountaineering helmet. I still say the biggest problem would be on the mountain if you climb safely, small rocks falling on your head from above. If a mountaineering helmet would offer you more protection than an industrial climbing helmet if you took a big fall, then I would like to see the evidence, I am not saying that a mountaineering helmet wouldn't offer more protection than an industrial climbing helmet if you fell, I just don't know because no one has produced any evidence to back this.

All helmets offer limited protection, if there is a big difference between an industrial climbing helmet and mountaineering helmet is debatable as no real evidence to prove that this is the case has been produced here. It would be nice to know how much stronger a mountaineering helmet is to an hard hat? I hard hat would give your head protection on a mountain as well from small falling rocks. If a big enough rock falls on your head, no mountaineering helmet would save you.

If a person can't afford a mountaineering helmet, they simple can't afford it and then I would say use something else that would offer you some protection as well, rather than use nothing.

If a company in England can make hard hats and then climbing helmets as well, you think maybe a company like North Safety products could produce climbing helmets here as a sideline and also export them. The question is, is their vision and are companies prepaired to make normal profits. It could be that it is not wortwhile to manufacture helmets here. The idea is good though, to produce more locally.
Marshall
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Post by Marshall »

An idustrial hard hat is better than nothing, but just get the real thing. One small trip to a GP is R210 bucks these days. For a minor injury, say 5 stitches & a trip to a Medicross could be R1500. Thats 3 helmets. Plus the nedcare ride, another 4 helmets.
st0ne
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Post by st0ne »

Is this Drifter guy for real?? I tried to read your post but really, because you don't know anything, it' really like reading a continual disclaimer. Wow, what a pain.

Drifter, I was not saying one should climb with a motorbike helmet. It was a cross reference to another dangerous activity where the safety equipment is obligatory.

Drifter said:
Stuff are made in China by companies because then there profit margin is much bigger
Actually, China has some of the best plastic injection molding factories on the planet. Couple that with the fact that people have a much higher work ethic, and work longer hours for less wages, means that it's more cost effective to outsource manufacturing tasks like this.
We don't know if product development costs are exaggerated to justify the price of products or if they are genuine
No, Drifter. YOU don't know. As a product designer, I am telling you that any new product of this nature, requiring UIAA and ISO certifications will take a considerable cash outlay.

Drifetr said:
I would think helmet technology is not new
Wrong again. Just look at the helmets we have today, compared to those of 20 years back. On every level, safety equipment is becoming more refined due to new materials like carbon fiber and other composites.

Drifter said:
If a mountaineering helmet would offer you more protection than an industrial climbing helmet if you took a big fall, then I would like to see the evidence
Sure thing. Read the specs and design info regarding helmets like Petzl's Ecrin Rock helmet. It has a special polystyrene inner core that is designed to deform on impact. Industrial hard hats have no inner thus the impact force will be transferred into the head and neck.

Drifter said:
I just don't know because no one has produced any evidence to back this
Rather, Drifter, you should say \"I don't know because I have not read and compared the test lab data supplied\"

Drifter said:
If a person can't afford a mountaineering helmet, they simple can't afford it and then I would say use something else that would offer you some protection as well, rather than use nothing.
For the price of half a BD Camalot one can purchase a decent, well designed climbing helmet. What are you climbing with? Ski rope and home made nuts? Need I say more?

Marshall, good one!

Drifter, I have seen a number of your posts on this forum and if I can offer some advice. Often, it's much better to just keep quiet if you don't know something. That way it's less likely you'll come off as an idiot.

Safe climbing everyone
mokganjetsi
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Post by mokganjetsi »

he st0ne man you're like THE TEACHER hehehe but your point is taken dude.

the chinese etc are very adapt at reverse engineering / copying whoevers R&D and products - you can buy some perfectly functional (i hope) fake branded biners in kathmandu for 15 bucs a piece. a bit like \" some local brand's\" mountain tent looking like a carbon copy of mountain hardwear's tent with a price difference of about 3grand. no R&D costs priced in there i suppose?

and please be kind to drifter he's keeping things interesting
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

Drifter said:


Quote:
\"Actually, China has some of the best plastic injection molding factories on the planet.\"

Was this set up by foreign companies such as American companies because it is cheaper to produce there?

Quote:
\"Couple that with the fact that people have a much higher work ethic, and work longer hours for less wages, means that it's more cost effective to outsource manufacturing tasks like this.\"

I think you mean workers have no rights there and you have sweat shops there. Free market capitlisim with a dictatorship. The worst kind of system.



Quote:
\"No, Drifter. YOU don't know. As a product designer, I am telling you that any new product of this nature, requiring UIAA and ISO certifications will take a considerable cash outlay. \"

You have a vested interest. I just have to take your word for it.How much research is done and how it much it affects the overall cost of the product would need to be independently varified.



Quote:
\"Wrong again. Just look at the helmets we have today, compared to those of 20 years back. On every level, safety equipment is becoming more refined due to new materials like carbon fiber and other composites.\"

What were wrong with the helmets of 20 years ago? What is wrong with the helmets of 10 years ago or 5 years ago? What are the big changes taking place all the time?

Quote:
\"Sure thing. Read the specs and design info regarding helmets like Petzl's Ecrin Rock helmet. It has a special polystyrene inner core that is designed to deform on impact. Industrial hard hats have no inner thus the impact force will be transferred into the head and neck.\"

I can accept that. If in practice it makes big difference, are there any documented accidents when this has made a big difference when people have fallen?
Can you tell me in layman's terms what the difference in strenght is between a hard hat, industrial climbing helmet and a mountaineering helmet when it comes to objects falling from above onto the helmet?


Quote:
\"Rather, Drifter, you should say \"I don't know because I have not read and compared the test lab data supplied\"

Post all the data you have on here and make it so everyone can understand what it means in real terms.

Quote:
For the price of half a BD Camalot one can purchase a decent, well designed climbing helmet. What are you climbing with? Ski rope and home made nuts? Need I say more?

Marshall, good one!

Your comparisons are illogicial. Any reasonable person would say that it would be more acceptable to climb using an industrial climbing helmet or hard hat than to climb on the mountain using a rope which doesn't stretch. Until I know if there is big difference in the strengths between an industrial climbing helmet and mountaineering helmet and if this makes a big difference in practical term when it comes to saving your life from objects falling from above above, I would need to see proof. I cannot say that there are major differences between an industrial climbing helmet and mountaineering helmet. I have an industrial climbing helmet and a mountaineering helmet and I am not convince when it comes to protecting me from objects falling from above me, if my mountaineering helmet would protect me more than my industrial climbing helmet. I would like to see clear, real pracital evidence that this is the case.


Quote:
Drifter, I have seen a number of your posts on this forum and if I can offer some advice. Often, it's much better to just keep quiet if you don't know something. That way it's less likely you'll come off as an idiot.

Stick to the topic.
You should try to convince people in a logical way. Making fun of people doesn't convince. This isn't China here, we are still allowed to speak freely here.
RockHopper
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Post by RockHopper »

Dude.....arrgh

Drifter, where do you come up with this rubbish... oh look it can now include quotes in his replies. :-)

Listen if you want to go climbing with a helmet, good. If you don't, it’s your choice. But if you are going to get one, get a CLIMBING helmet at least. Key word here people, climbing.

Industrial helmet, well lets see, used for industrial work.

Cycling helmet… mmm… right boys and girls, can anyone help me with this one?

Yes Drifter.... what was that... climbing... well not quite my boy.
Yes little Jonny....what was that... ah.. cycling.. well done.. have a gold star.

If you are interested in investing in a helmet, go and buy the best one that suites your pocket, yes they are expensive. They now seem to be coming in for just under R 500 - but they can easily last for several years and save you against some injury.

I have seen some climbers with helmets that they have been using for 20 years and others that replace them often.

I bought my one almost 4 years ago, the Petzl Elios and they where then selling for about R 250.

P.S. - Drifter, the milkman’s fudge has obviously affected your brain under that R 50 helmet.

:-)
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

The question is not what's for what but if A can be used for B. In certain circumstances in life A can be used for B and in other circumstances in life A cannot be used for B.

I believe an industrial climbing helmet or hard hat could be used for climbing where a small rock could fall from above onto your head. Rastaman mentioned side impacts where I can accept that an mountaineering helmet might be best suited however I think and others believe if you can't afford a mountaineering helmet then wear another helmet that will give some protection as well rather than wear no head protection at all.
Last edited by Drifter on Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Goddard
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Post by Paul Goddard »

Struuuuuth Drifer ! we get the point, but come on bro, let it go now !
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

ok, Paul I will

I can be very argumentative.

All I can say, is that if you can afford a mountaineering helmet buy one, if you can't afford one then get an industrial climbing helmet to wear on the mountain as it is better than climbing with no head protection and if you are saving up for a mountaineering helmet and are in the mean time are climbing still then wear a hard hat while you save enough money to buy your mountaineering helmet.
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justin
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Post by justin »

I'm gonna push this one a little further :)

Drifter, you own a helmet... !??
Pray do tell everyone what brand it is?
justin@CapeTownClimbing.com
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

Yes Justin I own a mountaineering helmet. The make is Petzl.
st0ne
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Re:

Post by st0ne »

Drifter wrote:The question is not what's for what but if A can be used for B. In certain circumstances in life A can be used for B and in other circumstances in life A cannot be used for B.
So then why not just climb in your Hi-teks instead of specific, purpose designed climbing shoes. In your words, it's "better than nothing". Hey, how about saving money and instead of buying a BASE setup, just get a normal parachute. That way it's cheaper for beginners, I mean, hey, they both look kind of the same, so they must be the same?

The absurdity of this argument is that you are proposing that beginners who have little money for equipment should make do with a hard hat for building sites, rather than making the point clear that climbers should look at buying a helmet right from the start. Climbing helmets are purpose designed to protect climbers from all manner of accident situations, not just a small stone from above.

I can just imagine all the school kids heading down to Halucigenic wall with their builder's hats!! haha. Maybe we should add miner's hats to the list, and I believe Pith hats have a hard lining. I'll even bet that a fireman's hat would do the trick. It would look really cool to wear it when at the coven on 'Jump in the Fire'. A further note to all those who are too poor to buy helmets and gear, find an army surplus store in your area and look for a combat helmet. It kind of looks the same as a climbing helmet, and, it's called a helmet too, so it must be the same.
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

I have climbed barefeet before. I found it better to climb barefeet than to use trainers. If someone doesn't have shoes maybe they would use trainers or go barefeet. I have seen a beginner at Silvermine climb barefeet.


I saw someone at lower Silvermine wearing a helmet which looked like an South African National Defence Force helmet. I can't comment on a South African National Defence Force helmet since I have never used one.


A mountaineering helmet might look better in appearance however if I didn't have one I would use a hard hat. I used an industrial climbing helmet for a quiet a long period and when I went trad climbing with a friend of mine on Lions Head who didn't have a helmet he wore a hard hat. The car I use is a business car so there is always normally a hard hat in the boot so if I forgot my regular helmet at home I would just use a hard hat which would be in the boot.
Bubbles
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Post by Bubbles »

Hey Guys, Drifter might have a pretty good point here with regard to the helmets, if you do not have the right gear at the time use the next best thing.

Personally i find when i head out to the crags and in my silliness found that i have left my gear at home in the duck pond i use what i have...the next best thing...lets see my Flip Flops bought at Shoprite for climbing shoes...my Cowboy hat for a helmet which comes with a feather to feather the chalk dust out of my littles eyes...as a harness...well i use ALWAYS ULTRA pads WITH wings for that ultra light feel while i flutter up the route!! :lol:

FOR HEAVENS SAKE USE THE RIGHT GEAR FOR THE RIGHT SPORT! I will not use fishing line for a rope or roller blade wheels for the car. :evil:

CLIMBING GEAR meant for the sport of CLIMBING! GET IT!

Right...thats my two cents, let me off to go get some tampons for when i leave my cams at home! :wink:
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

A tampon wouldn't work. A construction nut might would work if you jammed it in well enough. I put a construction nut in as a piece of protection( last piece of protection) for fun. I wouldn't though choose to trad climb with constructin nuts.


Instead of chalk you could use soil. Rub your hand full of soil at the bottom of the climb if you don't want to leave chalk marks on a particular climb. It works. You could put some in your empty chalk bag as well to carry up with you.

Why would you want to climb with flip flops on, that doesn't make sense. You only use things that would work. I use a rope to anchor on trad sometimes, when it is a standing anchor, the rope isn't part of the standard climbing equipment but it works. As long as you know it will work then what's wrong with it. As long as you not putting anyones elses life at risk, there is no problem.
Bubbles
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Post by Bubbles »

Your right, a tampon is too soft...Mascara that will work.... Long ... Hard... solid too... bet you wish you could call yourself long, hard and solid. :)

Are you for real??
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

You can't think logically. Making statements like using a fishing line for a rope, putting roller blades wheels onto a car etc. Yor comparisons are ridiculous.


High strength bolt and nuts, chains and shackles were never originally made for bolting sport routes but they are used for bolting routes because it works.


Using your statement, 'Use the Next Best thing' then yes Use the next best thing if it works., in some cases what you call 'the next best thing' actually works better. I have a nylon strap with a shock load of more than 3 tons if I am doing trad climbing and I am on a ledge and want to anchor myself to a tree or a big enough rock I will use that as well. This nylon strap I didn't buy from a climbing shop, not that I am trying to suggest that you shouldn't support the climbing industry. I believe in supporting the climbing industry.
st0ne
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Post by st0ne »

High strength bolt and nuts, chains and shackles were never originally made for bolting sport routes but they are used for bolting routes because it works.


Drifter, you are wrong about this too because express anchors, for example, were specifically designed for anchoring into rock and concrete. The glue ins are designed the same way. Look at the hangers we use, yep, purpose designed. The ring anchors and hanger-chain anchors, you guessed it, specifically designed. If you look at the bolting guidelines for most places one is asked to steer clear of using home made anchors etc due to their unreliability.
Use the next best thing if it works., in some cases what you call 'the next best thing' actually works better. I have a nylon strap with a shock load of more than 3 tons if I am doing trad climbing and I am on a ledge and want to anchor myself to a tree or a big enough rock I will use that as well.
I hope that people will use this as a warning to watch out for climbing with this 'Drifter' character. Let me guess, you bought a nylon tow rope from Midas and now use it when climbing?! Firstly, using something that is not designed for climbing leaves you with NO GUARANTEES. I'd like to see you shock load 3 tonnes onto your homemade strap. Remember, it's not just about you and your skint, cheap attitude. It's about the person who gets injured climbing with you, it's about the climbers nearby who will have to rescue you, and it's about making the entire climbing community look like a bunch of fools. This is not the day and age of home made harnasses. We have the designs, we have the technology. There is NO REASON to use the wrong equipment for the task. If you can't afford the right thing, then try being less of an arrogant, opinionated person and perhaps make some friends who DO have the right gear. That's how most of us started out.

If you look all over the country we are busy replacing the old home made L-channel hangers, hardware store chains are slowly being replaced with proper gear etc.
I believe in supporting the climbing industry.
Yeah, and Midas and Builder's Warehouse.
Tool
Drifter
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Post by Drifter »

The high strength nuts they use are from the construction industry. The metal chain and shakles you use I can get from outside the climbing industry. The new bolts they use the ones where it is a metal rod is bend, nothing special about them. Modified or not it can still be made by others outside the climbing industry. The basics are there, metal chains, shakles, high yeld bolts or nuts or high metal rod bend. The chains, the loops, the bolts and nuts I have seen at Silvermine and around, you can get from outside the climbing industry. There is nothing special about them as you try to claim.

If the climbing industry does guarantee a piece of equipment and it still breaks it doesn't help you when you are dead. The manufacturers of these climbing products might try to find anyway not to take any responsibility for a faulty product of theres. You would have to prove that there product was faulty which resulted in a death, with so much law suits in America, American companies will try not to take any responsibility. My nylon strap is guaranteed if looked after that it will not break under 3 tons. No one in the climbing industry or outside the climbing industry would guarantee for example a piece of equipment for life as they don't know how you are going to look after it and use it. That's why they say your climbing rope might have to replaced after a few climbs if has taken abuse ie; cut on an edge. The climbing industry doesn't say, we guarantee this rope for 5 years because they don't know if people are going to abuse the rope.

People can decide for themselves if they want to climb with me or not. They don't need you telling them who they should climb with.

There is nothing wrong with that nylon stap I bought. You can also buy a nylon strap and make your own harness using a karabeaner.

Getting upset and name calling just shows that your arguement is weak.
RockHopper
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Post by RockHopper »

Hey Doofus / Drifter (sorry I took the name from outside the climbing community, hey I just borrowed it from the aliens that work for Murray Roberts,

Some quick questions:

Have you ever heard of the CE / EN rating?

Have you ever heard of PPE gear?

What make of harness and climbing rope do you own?

I also think we should have a poll. Would you or would you not go climbing with Doofus?…mmm.. sorry I mean Drifter.

P.S Doofus, I am not name calling, simply making comparisons to something better. Drifter doesn’t suite you.

:-P
Drifter
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:54 am

Post by Drifter »

I say, you do what you like and I will do what I like as long as we don't endanger anybody else and we aren't encouraging anyone to do anything dangerous, then there is no problem. I can sleep sound at night knowing that anything I have said on here has not encouraged anyone to do anything dangerous.

That nylon strap I will carry on using because I know it is safe to do so.

I don't have to answer to you.
mr Chabalala
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:38 pm
Real Name: Leon Nel

Post by mr Chabalala »

The essence of the this boring thread !!

1. Should you wear a climbing helmet. Most would say yes, others only if doing non-overhanging sport or trad or multi-pitch. Each to his own, only worth wearing a helmet if you have a brain I suppose.

2. Is wearing an industrial helmet better than wearing NOTHING at all. Easy YES.

3. Is a industrial helmet a suitable replacement for a climbing helmet. No, but perhaps not the worst substitute.

Is there anything else to add ????
User avatar
emile
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:41 am
Real Name: OneDog

Post by emile »

My head hurts from all this \"info\" - would a helmet help for that? If so, which color is least likely to antagonize a baboon?
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