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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:55 am
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Real Name: aundre schultz
as you hike up to the Wolfberg Cracks, look up left and u see a sharp pointy rock at the top in the sky. i want to abseil off that . any advice or comment will be entertained. and what about multi rope rapping, one after the other, how will u join them safely? and bypass the "knot"? got 60mx13mm, 2x 60mx10mm static, Petzel rack, ropeman, kroll, jumar, slings, rack n rope for ankers on top. this is legit, anyone want to join me?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
You are refering to the Energy Crisis prow. You would need to be proficient in rigging an anchor and I would imagine on passing a knot. You can obtain a climbing permit at Sandrift, this should cover an absail. You can reach the prow from behind. As to gear, I would think static ropes would be better suited. Take care, many a thing can go wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:59 am 
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You want to practice each of the techniques required on the ground, and then in a 'friendly' environment before you do it at Wolfberg.

Re passing the knot - it's not rocket-science, but most people take 2 or 3 abortive attempts in training before getting it right. There are some nuances with the exact lengths of attachments, how much each prussic bites etc etc that need to be worked out. Doing it free-hanging adds strain.

Either procure some good first-hand beta from knowledgeble friends, or do a course which lays out the whole suite of skills.

Ant


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
My advice is that a climbing forum is not a place to learn how to do a knot pass, rather find a someone to show it to you in a safe location where you can practice it several times. If you climb and are interested in learning this kind of technique maybe consider doing an IRATA rope access course, a trad climbing course or joining Mountain Rescue where we train this kind of thing often.

The technique is easy but you WILL have to practice it beforehand, 80m off the deck is not somewhere to do something for the first time

Before you start abseiling, attach a Klemheist or 3 wrap prussick to your leg loop and to the rope below your belay device. This will allow you to stop and get your hands free by stopping 'minding' (controlling the prussik with your hand) the prussik and pushing your leg downwards.
Stop abseiling about 50cm above the knot.
Tie a French Prussik on to the rope above you.
Clip into the French prussik with a short sling (the sling should be shorter than your arms length, 60cm is good) attached to your harness's belay loop.
Check that the French prussik is biting the rope by pulling hard on the sling (don't grab the French prussik itself, it will move even under load). If it moves, redo it and then test it again.
When you are sure the French prussik is not going to move, continue abseiling until you are hanging from the sling and the rope below the French prussik is slack (this is why you must stop some distance above the knot and not against it.)
Recheck that everything is still safe and not moving.
Remove your abseil device, taking great car not to drop it, from the rope.
Reattach it just below the knot.
Check that it is correctly attached to rope. Double check it.
Remove your Klemheist or 3 wrap prussik and reattach it below the knot.
Check that it is correctly attached to rope. Double check it.
Check that everything is still safe and not moving.
Reach up and grab the French prussik and mind it downwards.
It should move slowly downwards until you are hanging from your belay device again.
Stop, check everything again.
Reach up, undo the French prussik and continue abseiling.

Once again, please get someone to show you how to do this before you do it for real.

Also consider the use of rope protectors and ways to anchor the rope where it goes over the edge so that it does not move horizontally. The Cederberg rock is so rough it will easily destroy ropes very easily.

To join the ropes you can use several knots, there is a discussion here

As an aside, anyone who trad climbs regularly should consider learning how to pass knots on abseil and ascent, how to ascend a rope, how to escape a system and how to build basic hauling systems as all of these techniques could help get you out of sticky situations, rescue your climbing partner, save your life and generally avoid annoying the rescue team on a Sunday evening.

And what Ant said

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:55 am
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Real Name: aundre schultz
henkg wrote:
You are refering to the Energy Crisis prow. You would need to be proficient in rigging an anchor and I would imagine on passing a knot. You can obtain a climbing permit at Sandrift, this should cover an absail. You can reach the prow from behind. As to gear, I would think static ropes would be better suited. Take care, many a thing can go wrong.


Thanks for the concern, i know shit happens, but practice makes perfect.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:55 am
Posts: 21
Real Name: aundre schultz
ant wrote:
You want to practice each of the techniques required on the ground, and then in a 'friendly' environment before you do it at Wolfberg.

Re passing the knot - it's not rocket-science, but most people take 2 or 3 abortive attempts in training before getting it right. There are some nuances with the exact lengths of attachments, how much each prussic bites etc etc that need to be worked out. Doing it free-hanging adds strain.

Either procure some good first-hand beta from knowledgeble friends, or do a course which lays out the whole suite of skills.

Ant

Aundre` [quote] got the knot right 1st time, good butt exercise over the India wall hey, will get hold of Nic for further hand on [singular] training and evaluation info.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:55 am
Posts: 21
Real Name: aundre schultz
Nic Le Maitre wrote:
My advice is that a climbing forum is not a place to learn how to do a knot pass, rather find a someone to show it to you in a safe location where you can practice it several times. If you climb and are interested in learning this kind of technique maybe consider doing an IRATA rope access course, a trad climbing course or joining Mountain Rescue where we train this kind of thing often.

The technique is easy but you WILL have to practice it beforehand, 80m off the deck is not somewhere to do something for the first time

Before you start abseiling, attach a Klemheist or 3 wrap prussick to your leg loop and to the rope below your belay device. This will allow you to stop and get your hands free by stopping 'minding' (controlling the prussik with your hand) the prussik and pushing your leg downwards.
Stop abseiling about 50cm above the knot.
Tie a French Prussik on to the rope above you.
Clip into the French prussik with a short sling (the sling should be shorter than your arms length, 60cm is good) attached to your harness's belay loop.
Check that the French prussik is biting the rope by pulling hard on the sling (don't grab the French prussik itself, it will move even under load). If it moves, redo it and then test it again.
When you are sure the French prussik is not going to move, continue abseiling until you are hanging from the sling and the rope below the French prussik is slack (this is why you must stop some distance above the knot and not against it.)
Recheck that everything is still safe and not moving.
Remove your abseil device, taking great car not to drop it, from the rope.
Reattach it just below the knot.
Check that it is correctly attached to rope. Double check it.
Remove your Klemheist or 3 wrap prussik and reattach it below the knot.
Check that it is correctly attached to rope. Double check it.
Check that everything is still safe and not moving.
Reach up and grab the French prussik and mind it downwards.
It should move slowly downwards until you are hanging from your belay device again.
Stop, check everything again.
Reach up, undo the French prussik and continue abseiling.

Once again, please get someone to show you how to do this before you do it for real.

Also consider the use of rope protectors and ways to anchor the rope where it goes over the edge so that it does not move horizontally. The Cederberg rock is so rough it will easily destroy ropes very easily.

To join the ropes you can use several knots, there is a discussion here

As an aside, anyone who trad climbs regularly should consider learning how to pass knots on abseil and ascent, how to ascend a rope, how to escape a system and how to build basic hauling systems as all of these techniques could help get you out of sticky situations, rescue your climbing partner, save your life and generally avoid annoying the rescue team on a Sunday evening.

And what Ant said


Aundre` [quote] thanks Nic, appreciate the precise, itemised info,my training is from John Long`s guide book and others, many hours at the quarry and over India wall. As this is all happening onehanded, my tecnique is tediously meticulous,faultless and safe.
Used this forum to hear what some of the big boys had to say. i do trad climbing and abseil frequently, I want to improve my ankering skills, so will get hold of rescue.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:42 am
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Real Name: william
y one is in my garage. Only bouldering, but quite cool.

You can e mail me; marshall (at) qsafrica.co.za

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
a question - if you ab of the energy crisis prow you will be hanging in mid-air 60m down (unless you ab of the left side as you face the prow). how will you get back on?
Attachment:
paul energy crisis 3.jpg
paul energy crisis 3.jpg [ 147.67 KiB | Viewed 2611 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Aundre has 3x 60 meter ropes, he plans to by pass knots and finish on the ground. I assume... !?
Otherwise it will be a long jumar back up.

Nice pic btw :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
ah, i should have read the post properly


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:13 pm
Posts: 693
Justin wrote:
Nice pic btw
It even has good protection :mrgreen:


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