Working routes

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wja
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Working routes

Postby wja » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Do you improve your climbing skills when you work routes?

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Thermophage
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Re: Working routes

Postby Thermophage » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:32 pm

of course...
Try a route where you can do a few moves, but fall off a lot and watch yourself progress :)

Continually doing stuff you are comfortable with will make things much slower in terms of progression :S
Similarly...if you can't get your but off the ground the same applies ;)

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danglingdingle
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Re: Working routes

Postby danglingdingle » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Agreed, its rad to climb 18's all the time, But all you will succeed in doing is become brilliant at 18's

Try doing somthing that you suck at and you will improve not only at the grade you are trying but the lower grades as well.

Also nothing beats that feeling of sending a rad project, or onsiteing something at your limit.

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Justin
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Re: Working routes

Postby Justin » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:57 pm

Also helps to build 'engrams'
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za

Chris F
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Re: Working routes

Postby Chris F » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:46 am

Yes, if you choose the route well. Some routes are just a case of plodding on jugs and all you need to do is develop the stamina to get the moves done before you pump out. If you choose a route where some technique or skillset you are unfamiliar with is required then you can develop those skills as you go.

If you work a route which is way above your limit though you won't learn much as you will struggle to pull on and barely even be able to grasp the moves and just get frustrated. You might get up it eventually given enough time and effort, but that time and effort is probably better spent on a few routes at a lower grade before you get on something harder.

wja
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Re: Working routes

Postby wja » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:29 am

danglingdingle wrote:Agreed, its rad to climb 18's all the time, But all you will succeed in doing is become brilliant at 18's


Sure, but you can gradually move out of your comfort zone e.g. you can try many 18's then move to 19's etc.
But I'm not sure if it is good for a 18 grade climber to spend all her time working e.g. 22's.
Maybe I should have said: How much time should you spend on working routes? That is opposed to just climbing many different routes of onsightable grades, and improving gradually.

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:37 pm

"work"

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lelikegogga
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Re: Working routes

Postby lelikegogga » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:21 pm

wja wrote:Sure, but you can gradually move out of your comfort zone e.g. you can try many 18's then move to 19's etc.
But I'm not sure if it is good for a 18 grade climber to spend all her time working e.g. 22's.
The pyramid system gives a bit more structure to exactly what you are saying.
And I believe this system is a good guideline to experience balance between work, achievement and having fun.

Don't try to red-point a route of a certain grade if you have not done at least 2 routes of the grade below that and 3 or 4 of the grade below that, etc.
Example:
Only try red-point a grade 22 if you've done 2 grade 21s, 3 grade 20s, 4 grade 19s, etc... down to at least your onsight level.

This forces a good base (move vocabulary or engrams if you will) that helps you explore your capabilities and getting to know your limitations.
That said, don't be afraid to try anything at least once. Grades are subjective and one route of a higher grade might suit your build/style more. You'll never know if you don't try.

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:54 pm

lol, climb as hard as ur body allows from the start, try routes that u dont stand a chance on, try things 10 grades harder than u can climb if the psyche is there. the reason why people dont progress is because they dont accept that its gonna get exponentially harder. u can easily go from 21 to 29 in a year if u just keep trying harder stuff, harder does not imply that the grips get smaller, very few grades under 26 actually have small holds, just push a little and reap the rewards.

if someone tells u the routes u trying are to hard, its cause they to scared to push, come climb with us

ebert nel
im far from the best, but going from 21 to 29 in a year was as easy as finding the right crowd to climb with

Old Smelly
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Re: Working routes

Postby Old Smelly » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:16 am

The advantage of the pyramid system over just going out and cranking anything as hard as you can is not as stated prior to this that people are scared of pushing themselves but of avoiding the inevitable injury that comes with just going out and pushing yourself to the absolute limit everytime.

look at how many new strong climbers do so well in the first year or so...injure themselves & take a long time to recover...

Sure you can say natural selection finds those who don't break in this initial enthusiastic timespan but for the regular guy always climbing as hard as you possibly can will find your weakpoints...at which point you need to pull back, rest & ease off a bit...

Look at how the pro's work a route...a short period of intense effort...go away for quite a while...come back & try again..watch Chris Sharma if you don't believe me...he spends way more time relaxing than cranking it hard...
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:50 pm

(facepalm)

HOW MANY MOVIES DO YOU SEE WHERE SHARMA IS repeating A LINE? aka pushing the LIMIT

ebert

: ( )

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emile
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Re: Working routes

Postby emile » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:05 pm

Forket wrote:(facepalm)

HOW MANY MOVIES DO YOU SEE WHERE SHARMA IS repeating A LINE? aka pushing the LIMIT

ebert

: ( )


Ebert - either you or me are misunderstanding something here. What do you mean?

I've seen Sharma fall more times than send, and I think that was what Old Smelly was talking about - working a line, resting and coming back. I mean in King Lines he talks about trying that arch route many many many times, taking breaks and coming back?

Are you talking about him repeating other people's routes or routes he has done already?

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:04 am

(facepalm AGAIN)
you dont see sharma in movies repeating other peoples lines (in movies), aka, every route he climbs is above his limit and he works his damn ass off every single time he gets onto the rock. Not like he is trying a 20 and he can run up it 20 times just to look cool, HE PUSHES THE LIMIT EACH TIME HE STEPS ONTO THE ROCK in movies, so what im getting at is, your example is a poor comparison coz u comparing whatever u guys are arguing about working, lets guess max 22, to the world limits of 37, 38, 39. DO YOU NOT SEE THE IRONY? he takes long break yes, but he is climbing 20 grades harder than u, what im getting too, WHEN U CLIMB THE GRADE WE (south africans) CLIMB, PUSH URSELF ON THE ROCK, we far behind on the world scale and our bodies can take a little punishment!

ebert
get it now?

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:51 am

last post on this message, when 'working' on your climbing, PUSH URSELF on the rock and take it chilled in the gym, ull find due to most people lack in mental strength u cant pull any move as hard as in the gym. Im not looking to argue, just find it funny when people that dont push themselve look down on those actually pushing themself.

Ebert Nel
I took a girl climbing for the 1st time on rock, she got onto a 24, and now i cant get her off it

Old Smelly
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Re: Working routes

Postby Old Smelly » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:15 pm

I am not sure I get your logic...but I do get your point :thumright

What you are suggesting is that all the climbers in SA try harder or push harder & not limit themselves by fear or lack of imagination. GREAT POINT!!

Back on topic of the forum my advice was that for some one who is asking whether working routes way beyond their ability will help them -YES - must they push themselves to the limit every time they climb -NO - I believe that many climbers have been injury stats from overdoing it early on - I think something like this has already been discussed on this forum- so the suggestion was that just like the PRO's (admittedly I am no expert on Sharma & as you say we only see what we are shown)-I think the point still applies from what THEY say on the video's - the idea would be to work a route a bit...then give it a break...(interpret reasonable rest period --based on the severity) & the come back & try again...

I only know one guy who repeatedly tries a route about 50 times until he gets it...he is both very strong & very stubborn...

So yes, lets get our psche right!!!! but lets also advise guys to watch out for injuries...normally you only work it out once you are injured & have to sit around for a few months...
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Chris F
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Re: Working routes

Postby Chris F » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:47 pm

Forket wrote:(facepalm AGAIN)
you dont see sharma in movies repeating other peoples lines (in movies), aka, every route he climbs is above his limit and he works his damn ass off every single time he gets onto the rock. Not like he is trying a 20 and he can run up it 20 times just to look cool, HE PUSHES THE LIMIT EACH TIME HE STEPS ONTO THE ROCK in movies,


So you think that just because you only ever see sharma pushing himself to the limit in movies you therefore assume never does easy mileage or repeats other people's routes and problems on the days when he isn't being filmed? :lol: great leap of logic.

wesleywt
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Re: Working routes

Postby wesleywt » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:28 pm

Forket wrote:lol, climb as hard as ur body allows from the start, try routes that u dont stand a chance on, try things 10 grades harder than u can climb if the psyche is there. the reason why people dont progress is because they dont accept that its gonna get exponentially harder. u can easily go from 21 to 29 in a year if u just keep trying harder stuff, harder does not imply that the grips get smaller, very few grades under 26 actually have small holds, just push a little and reap the rewards.

if someone tells u the routes u trying are to hard, its cause they to scared to push, come climb with us

ebert nel
im far from the best, but going from 21 to 29 in a year was as easy as finding the right crowd to climb with


If you listen to this advice, you WILL get injured and you will probably not improve much. You are not Chris Sharma, you have a real job. Sharma is a pro, and improves on the climbs he does. Unless you can get on the rock at any time during the week, you will unfortunately have to crank in the gym for 2 hours a session. I would say you would have to be more organised and plan your sessions when you can. And try routes that out of your comfort zones while using similar easier routes as practice for your red point project.

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Re: Working routes

Postby deSouzaFrank » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm

Ebert, nothing personal but I really think you need to turn the ego down just a notch or eight. Have you seen how humble your heroes are? Chris Sharma, Alex Honnold that free solos mind boggling routes, not even to mention the humility of Uli Steck. A mountain athlete god. (My opinion)

This Houston calling Ebert back to mission control for a well deserved humble pie on good old mother earth.
Frank
5-10 pairs of miss matched hand me downs
Mixed draws
Black rope

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:05 pm

If you havent noticed, im so blunt i skip humbleness, im that guy that will tell u the truth and whats on my mind, not some sugar coated story about how lazy u can be and improve your climbing, SOMETIMES U JUST GOTTA ACCEPT WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU TO HARDEN THE FUCK UP, and whatever u respond, please note ur anger is my motivation

ebert
if you wanna climb harder, climb 200 18s, and then climb a 19, then die from old age
OR skip a grade, learn something new and apply it to lower levels
if you dont like my advice, do what the other guys do, i dont mind, just enjoy yourself
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Deon
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Re: Working routes

Postby Deon » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:13 pm

Lol... this is actually funny reading the thread!

Sometimes when a person looks past his ego, he will notice that for most people climbing is about getting out and having a good time! If you push yourself a bit every time when you go out, you will improve. Its good to have a project a grade or 2 above your limit to have something to work toward.. or you can jump on a 34 your first time on rock, look like an idiot, and then tell everyone that you are awesome :lol:
But what do i know.. i only use climbing as an excuse to drink beer after!

Enjoy the climbing... on a 15 or a 29, aparently 29's are not that hard :thumright.... if you cant climb it, you must be scared..lol

pierre.joubert
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Re: Working routes

Postby pierre.joubert » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:11 am

ebert wrote:last post on this message
and then
ebert wrote:If you havent noticed, im so blunt i skip humbleness, im that guy that will tell u the truth and whats on my mind, not some sugar coated story about how lazy u can be and improve your climbing, SOMETIMES U JUST GOTTA ACCEPT WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU TO HARDEN THE FUCK UP, and whatever u respond, please note ur anger is my motivation
SOMETIMES U JUST GOTTA ACCEPT WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP

See what I did there :thumleft:

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emile
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Re: Working routes

Postby emile » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:28 am

pierre.joubert wrote:SOMETIMES U JUST GOTTA ACCEPT WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP

See what I did there


:thumleft:

Frankly I'm scared anything I say motivates the man to post again.

Forket wrote:and whatever u respond, please note ur anger is my motivation


We're not angry, pinky promise.

joshpickering
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Re: Working routes

Postby joshpickering » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:38 am

Looking at Forket's "real name", I guess he's just having us on and isn't the chop that he's making himself out to be... well, here's to hoping anyway. (is "chop" acceptable language on this forum? I don't want to over-step the line)

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lelikegogga
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Re: Working routes

Postby lelikegogga » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:45 am

emile wrote:Frankly I'm scared anything I say motivates the man to post again.
Don't be scared. Be brave. Do it for the sake of entertainment!
:lol:
I don't have a funky picture, but: "The show must go on!" - Albert Einstein.. (or was is Freddie?)

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emile
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Re: Working routes

Postby emile » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:53 am

lelikegogga wrote:Don't be scared. Be brave.


No man!!!

When he said
Forket wrote:ebert
get it now?


like that I felt like I was a boy again and my dad was being tough on me. Went all cold and had to go take a leak. (being the old guy & all)

I mean, he did manage to climb 29's in only a year....

Deon
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Re: Working routes

Postby Deon » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:00 am

Forket wrote:its cause they to scared to push


look, he said it himself..Dont be scared!
Be brave :lol:

ivan
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Re: Working routes

Postby ivan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:22 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... yORou0kza0

Not sure how to put a link up for a video but if it doesnt work go watch " climb like chris sharma, his tips part 2"

Deon
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Re: Working routes

Postby Deon » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:39 am

ivan wrote:" climb like chris sharma, his tips part 2"


Forket wrote:DO YOU NOT SEE THE IRONY?
:lol:

Forket wrote:ebertget it now?
:thumright

Whaahahaha... funny stuff!

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:13 pm

i love trolling to make a point, get it now?

I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IMPROVING CLIMBING!!!

further more, I HAVE LIED TO YOU ALL, i RECANT EVERY SINGLE WORD i typed on this post. I am sorry if i offended anybody and i ask for your sincerest apology IF the fellow posters can please answer me he following 2 questions:

1) HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN CLIMBING?
2) Whats the hardest climb you've done?

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

its not an ambiguous question btw

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Forket
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Re: Working routes

Postby Forket » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:17 pm

epic video btw, love this guy, think i might be inlove :mrgreen:

loving that advice:D

Ebert nel
i post pictures so i can see how many people i influence :pirat:
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