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 Post subject: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 10:03 am
Posts: 40
Who in their wisdom bolted a route straight across the roof of the main cave at Peer's Cave? Its only the most significant archeological and heritage site on the Peninsula. WTF?


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Apparently it belongs to Matt Bush

See: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6291&hilit=peers+cave

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 593
Troll?
Perhaps.....

But, if true.

Confiscate all the criminals climbing gear and banish him in totality from the climbing community.
Then hand him over to the police.

Those bolts need to be chopped asap too.

And yes, I am serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:26 am
Posts: 81
Location: London, United Kingdom
Real Name: Stephen Martindale
In lieu of the confusion that has come to light in this thread, I would like to withdraw my comments and humbly ask those who's noses were put out of joint by my post and @mattbush to forgive my indiscretion - I ranted hastily and needlessly - I am sorry I did so.

Xharlie wrote:
This incident was a hot topic of debate around the coffee machine at work, this morning.

It really made me sick to hear about it. Assuming the facts are true, it is a disaster and travesty not only because of damage to the cave but because the perpetrator is a sport climber and this sort of behavior really drags sport climbing into the dirt.


Last edited by Xharlie on Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Cormac Tooze
:)


Last edited by Xenomorph on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 28
Real Name: Mayra Juliana
Maybe it would be wiser to get all the facts before crucifying the guy, don't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
Matt's route is at Tunnel Cave, approx 250m from Peers' Cave. So this is all a load of nonsense unless there is another route in Peers' Cave that I don't know about.

I'm not an archaeologist, but my understanding is that Peers' Cave is of very little archaeological value because dear Mr Peers excavated it gently with dynamite.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 593
@ Guy:
Whether or not Peers cave is equal to Mapungubwe is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Peers Cave has been declared a National Monument and is thus protected by the National Monuments Act. (Try making alterations to a house protected by that Act...)

The lesson to be learned here is that bolting creates permanent scarring to the rock. The damage done by the act of drilling a hole can never be undone, so bolters better both follow the correct procedures and bolt at specified areas.
That said, everybody who is pro bolting are demographically either young and inexperienced or unintelligent, so I don’t expect them to fully understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:22 am
Posts: 99
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Bradley Gie
Common guys! Surely we've learnt by now that slander before evidence is a waste of time to say the least and knocking Matt for a route we're not even sure is there let alone is his!!?!?!? :roll:
JuJu would tune: "defamation of character you bloody agents!"

Pic's please!

Guy wrote:
Matt's route is at Tunnel Cave, approx 250m from Peers' Cave. So this is all a load of nonsense unless there is another route in Peers' Cave that I don't know about


I have seen this route and it's an insane project that I can't wait to see someone (hopefully Matt) send!!


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 7
Real Name: Stuart Brown
I love reading the forum for some of the good stuff that is said among a lot of rubbish.

What Hann says "That said, everybody who is pro bolting are demographically either young and inexperienced or unintelligent, so I don’t expect them to fully understand" takes the cake.

Well done dude you sound really smart "intelligent", you might be wise too or maybe very old and experienced??? But that is the biggest load of crap I've seen on this forum for a long time, I'll keep checking in for the next smart comment.

I'm pro bolting, within reason and consider myself old, experienced and maybe not so intelligent ??? So you might be right on one of those.

If the bolts are in the wrong place, go and chop them cover the holes and no one will know the difference, I promise! And don't do it again. Then go out and have some fun, it's weekend.....maybe try crank one of those insane routes instead of bitchin! That's what I'm going to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:52 am
Posts: 73
Location: Cape Town
:afro: LIKE BUTTON :afro:

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:20 am
Posts: 81
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Klimkop - Ricko
Stuart, you sound hurt! dont take it so personally! People will always have different opinions. Thats just how it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:55 am 
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 101
Real Name: Josh Pickering
oooo, I see another "trad vs. sport" debate brewing! I'm sure we'll come to a consensus THIS time...


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 721
Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
"The lesson to be learned here is that bolting creates permanent scarring to the rock. The damage done by the act of drilling a hole can never be undone, so bolters better both follow the correct procedures and bolt at specified areas.
That said, everybody who is pro bolting are demographically either young and inexperienced or unintelligent, so I don’t expect them to fully understand."

I'm actively bolting what ever I feel like at the moment, maybe I fit your generalization(I'm ok with that). I'm having fun. What are you going to do about it other than make statements & generalizations. ....f*** all...what can you do?


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: East London
Real Name: Garvin Jacobs
Derek! Be nice!
May be one should ask why not one of the guys complaining here, has gone to take a photo. So this thing can be sorted. But then who would have the balls to get the confronting job done. So this rant is their only way to "take a stand"


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Hann wrote:
@ Guy:
Whether or not Peers cave is equal to Mapungubwe is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Peers Cave has been declared a National Monument and is thus protected by the National Monuments Act.


I'm confused. So does "Peer's Cave" and the proected area refer to just the actual cave, or the "rock massif" as a whole. If the latter what happens to the existing sport routes? And replacement of existing bolts? Some must be getting a bit long in the tooth now.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 593
Chris F wrote:
...does "Peer's Cave" and the proected area refer to just the actual cave, or the "rock massif" as a whole

Very valid question.
Anybody want to do the admin and find out?


Marshall1 wrote:
I'm actively bolting what ever I feel like at the moment...what can you do?

@ Justin, can we please have both a "wanker" and "loser" emoticon? Perhaps a "mooning" emoticon would be handy too.


garvinj wrote:
get the confronting job done.

I doubt that any wrong doing has happened at the cave in discussion, (matt was not born yesterday)
But I can do with a bit of stress relief. Just send me a photo and point me in the right direction...... :rambo:


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: East London
Real Name: Garvin Jacobs
GEEEEES,If you had to play rugby you be a centre: not that quick, but a side step to die for.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 605
Real Name: Warren Gans
Its funny how there are two types of people in the climbing community (although i m sure this is true for any community): those who are involved for the community, and there are people in the community who are for themselves. Neither are flawless, but the difference is when their flaws are pointed out they react differently: those community minded apologize and correct to the best of their abilities, actively trying to help resolve other issues (or at least aspiring to), while those in for themselves challenge the community to solve the problem that they -if not caused-help to prolong and exacerbate.

In the thread above those two groups have shown which they are, while we wait for the accused to state his intentions. Right now this thread is exploring “what if”, lets wait for either a reply from the person in question, or solid evidence where the route is. If it is found that indeed someone has defaced a national monument then it is the communities obligation to repair the damage done, whatever that means.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: East London
Real Name: Garvin Jacobs
"lets wait for either a reply from the person in question, or solid evidence" See there in bold, that is the problem. Someone has to do the necessary and set it straight. I think you agree that the 1100km from East London is a little much to ask. I'll be in Cape town in November. How sad it would be if I'm the one posting a pic of the route in question.

Garvin
PS nice thesis. a little short but nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:22 am
Posts: 99
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Bradley Gie
Spot on Warren G!
Lets not get red in the face prematurely.

I will dig for an answer on the very pertinent question of:
garvinj wrote:
does "Peer's Cave" and the protected area refer to just the actual cave, or the "rock massif" as a whole


And will do my best to take a drive "over the hill" to go snap some pic's.

Will report back on Monday.

No go enjoy climbing/ life/ whatever it is that puts a smile on your dial.
Carpe Diem!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:19 am
Posts: 25
Hi All

The route at Peers Cave is one that I bolted. Without further adeui I bring to you a few ipso factos to clear up the stale air of allegation:

1. False allegations and defamations of character are a serious issue and shouldn't be thrown around mindlessly.

2. Major damage was done to the natural rock formations during excavation in the 1920s so it is illogical to proclaimed this a "natural sanctuary" when it was blown up and drilled to remove fossil remains.

3. Vandals continue to graff the rocks, light fires, litter and break glass bottles at the base of Peers Cave. I ask you if you have sensibility and are willing to put it towards a forthright cause to make this one yours, assist me as I have on many occaisions with cleaning the rock and the litter to make Peers a better place.

Perhaps a more constructive forum post could be entitled, "LETS CLEAN PEERS CAVE TOGETHER AND MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE." We could walk with black bags and do something trully constructive for the community.

3. Peers Cave was never officially declared a National Monument. Check out, http://www.turtlesa.com/ezine142a.html

4. The route is approximately 50m to the right of Gecko Blaster, an awesome roof crack @ 27

5. 2m to the left of the line I bolted is the beginnings of another route someone started bolting more than five years ago but never finished.

6. A word about the route itself, the line is immaculate and will climb at around 9b, which is a new level for South Africa. I welcome the inspired, brave and courageous to join in the journey of opening the route. All of the routes I have bolted (Paarl, Montagu, Peers Cave, Llnadudno) are open to all because I believe in the power of collaborative efforts and evolving with people.

Heres to the progression and love of Climbing
Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:54 pm
Posts: 57
Real Name: Myburgh van Zijl
Boom.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:13 pm
Posts: 6
Real Name: Lyal Seba
Some of these allegations you guys are making are ridiculous. Wrongfully accusing someone of being a criminal and lambasting them publically is in itself a wrongful act. Rethink your attacks before you post them online. If a place is a heritage site would SAN Parks or not mark it out clearly with signs?? I searched on their website and nothing comes up. If you want to chat to Matt pick up your phones and give him a call.

I see some of the guys have edited their previous comments and made them positive. This is big of you and appreciated.


Last edited by Lyal on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Warren G wrote:
In the thread above those two groups have shown which they are, while we wait for the accused to state his intentions. Right now this thread is exploring “what if”, lets wait for either a reply from the person in question, or solid evidence where the route is. If it is found that indeed someone has defaced a national monument then it is the communities obligation to repair the damage done, whatever that means.


Bit of common sense there, looks like Warren G had to regulate. What happened to your buddy Nate Dogg anyway?

(apologies to anyone not around in the early 90s wondering what I'm wittering on about).


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
And on the subject of apologies, I think one or two may be forthcoming.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:59 pm
Posts: 722
REGULATORS!!! MOUNT UP!


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 pm
Posts: 165
World class Chris F...
''I'm not a pistoleer or a knifesmith like that greaser Chavez over there. I'm a pugilist''.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
we regulate any stealing of his property
and we damn good too
But you can't be any geek off the street,
gotta be handy with the steel if you know what I mean, earn your keep!
REGULATORS!!! MOUNT UP!

It was a clear black night, a clear white moon....

etc

Googling, just found out Nate Dogg is dead :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12758613


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal bolting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: East London
Real Name: Garvin Jacobs
How about editing that a little:
we regulate any Bolting of his property
and we damn good too
But you can't be any geek off the street,
gotta be hands on Grinding steel if you know what I mean, earn your keep!
REGULATORS!!! Rack UP!


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