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 Post subject: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:08 pm 
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The Drakenstein mountains, Franschoek side of Hellshoogte is home to one of the highest walls in the western Cape. I think it's called Hutchinson's buttress according to a previous post on this forum (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1737&view=next). About 5 years ago I climbed a route called Duiwels Direct, and adventurous and long country route with tricky route finding (about F2/F3). A very satisfying ascent and a long day.

I returned this past weekend to do a kloofing trip in an adjacent kloof and on the way up Duiwels noticed a line of bolts going up the middle of the same wall, near where I suspect Lucifer goes.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the nature of the route that has been bolted, does it go all the way to the top (we could see only the bottom two pitches)? What grade is it? is it a project? Who bolted it? Was permission granted from the land owner / manager? Please PM me if you have any further info. I'm curious...

Stephen Davis


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi

I have no idea what the route is called but it will probably be in one of the MCSA journals (if it is an old route - how old do the bolts look and are they glue-ins/expansions or what?), I would look it up for you but I am currently locationally challenged.

I can guarantee that the route was bolted illegally, the whole area is part of the Hottentots Holland Nature Reserve and bolting of any kind is banned. You actually need a permit from CapeNature to access the area but it is never enforced so no one bothers.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Hi Stephen,

Is this the wall you are talking about?

Image
Photo by Mike Scott

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Is that picture in Duiwelskloof? Looks remarkably like Woodhead Buttress, home of Virago.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Hi

This is Hutchinson Buttress, as seen from Boschendal (thanks Windows 7):
Attachment:
ZA-wp4.jpg
ZA-wp4.jpg [ 57.27 KiB | Viewed 2799 times ]


And this is the Duiwelskloof amphitheater, behind the small pyramid peak in the photo above:
Attachment:
PC270002.JPG
PC270002.JPG [ 97.98 KiB | Viewed 2799 times ]

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Last edited by Nic Le Maitre on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:35 pm 
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post deleted as requested!


Last edited by Keith on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Thanks Keith, that is the indeed the one - the same wall in the shade on Nic's second photo. Duiwels Direct starts just right of the left-facing corner on that wall. The bolts look shiny and new from a distance, but I did not get any closer to see what kind they were.

Justin, the wall in Mike's picture looks very interesting, but not familiar to me. Looks worth exploring though. Any idea where that is exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Real Name: voytek modrzewsski
hello Stephen
give me a call - can get my number from numerous individuals- even Justin
the route is a project- in one of the most unfrequented kloofs around western cape
it tries to take some good patches of rock, where normally you would't place pro- in other words a sports route.
second pitch has bolts missing
it runs 7 pitches thus far
there are abseil anchors from the top of the wall diagonally down- not recommended to use them just yet as the distances were done on 100 m ropes

there are biggish run outs in some places and rock can be loose here and there

grade varies up to 25- but the head wall looks harder and blanker and steeper above 7th pitch.

runs independently alongside duivels direct

perhaps its illegal- please dont panic-

regards
voytek


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
@Voytek: If you don't have express permission from CapeNature, on whose land it is, then it is illegal. This will not currently be a problem as they don't know about it, however should they find out about it, it could result in the banning of all bolting in CapeNature areas (as has almost happened on several occasions) which include Hellfire, Rocklands and Truitjieskraal.

Since these posts are now in the public arena, it simply needs a CapeNature employee to stumble upon this thread and goodbye sport climbing in large areas of the Western Cape.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:50 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Stephen, I'm completely off the map the photo is of Slangolie Ravine!

Interesting to note that the photo Nic posted (of Hugenot Buttress) is a desktop picture that gets shipped with Windows 7

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:48 pm
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Location: suiptown
Real Name: kobus botha
Just because a kloof is not "frequently visited" (how do you define that anyway?) does not mean you can claim ownership.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:57 am 
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Location: suiptown
Real Name: kobus botha
That said, I think there is a real lack of long sport routes in the western cape, so big up to anyone who is working on opening long lines (I've heard of others, probably just as illegal :lol: )


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:26 am 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
RE Cape Nature not knowing things: the one thing I learnt from the Rope across Kasteelpoort is that they read this forum, but only occasionally or when there is some climbing related point of interest to them. currently i would expect them to be following what is happening here as there is activity that they are involved with.

To talk publically about a secret makes it no longer a secret

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:36 am 
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Posts: 570
Guys, what are we trying to do here, shoot ourselves in the foot? Delete the pics already, and leave the subject alone..
The amount of damage / impact a bolted line would leave on the environment is minimal IMO but it's all about perceptions.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:42 am 
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it is called Hutchinson Butress not Hugenot.

oh my goodness someone broke THE LAW!?!?!?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:43 am 
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Yup, I'm with Stu on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:56 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
I've received one mail so far to remove this post.

It's not my post and therefore I will leave it up to the individuals to remove their own posts/pictures - Users can do this by 'Editing' their post.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Although he does not speak for CN as a whole the reserve manager of Limietberg reserve (Im not sure what Hutchinson's buttress falls under) is not himself against bolts on principle - he is already well aware of the bolts at Waterfront and Hellfire. A climbing management plan for that area has simply never been finalised and therefore bolting remains unregulated and thus 'illegal'.

I started drawing up the first draft of this management plan but ran into problems as I was told by MCSA to follow the Cederberg model as closely as possible. This is not practical for the Limietberg area as it has its own unique set of circumstance that differ vastly from the Cederberg thus requiring a different plan. I have a working framework of the proposed plan drafted, what's missing is an accurate picture of the environmental concerns of the reserve itself and integration of that view into the plan. An interview with the Park manager or appointee would very quickly fill this gap in the information. If anyone wishes to pick this project up and see it through to completion Im pretty sure that bolting would be given a green light and allowed in a regulated form in future, following the usual wading through red tape.

I believe that some people may have started bolting lines in that vicinity, they themselves believing that the completion of this climbing management plan was imminent. As back to front as it seems it is easier to present an existing bolted area/route for inclusion in a management plan than it is to apply for a new one. Bumblies bleating away about bolts they didnt know existed before (this is not the only route going up nor are these projects new) on forums like this does not help the situation. What will help is for someone to take over the work Ive started and get a plan instituted. Then all these bolts will be legalised and you can all stop complaining! :wink:

PS I dont remember the same furor being raised about a ceratin multipitch mixed route (that used quite a few bolts) going up in that vicinity (not Duiwelskloof), it seems peoples reactions are skewed along lines of 'reasoning' that have little logic behind them.

PPS that first pic does indeed look like TM, wrong pic, wrong place.


Last edited by XMod on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:43 am 
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Posts: 39
Hi Guys

The intention of my asking was out of curiosity, not to open a thorny debate, nor publicly expose illegal bolting. But now that:
a) the rabbit is out of the bag (thanks Voytek for being open and honest, and answering my questions) and,
b) this forum is one place where we can still maintain some freedom of expression

I have no intention of deleting the post.

My initial and personal thought (i.e. do NOT read as the entire truth of the matter) when I saw the bolts, was that they were out of place, and I didn't like seeing them there. Why? I'm very much in favour of leaving a select few places conserved, wild and untamed, no matter how big or small the perceived impact.

For me it's nothing to do with a bolting vs trad debate, it's more about preservation of pristine environments. I also thought that whoever placed these bolts must have thought that it is really important to do so given the effort and cost to do it, and the many other existing places to do so, and maybe Voytec could exaplain why he went to such extreme effort (if only to satisfy my final bit of curiosity).


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am 
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Posts: 570
Stephen wrote:
Hi Guys

The intention of my asking was out of curiosity, not to open a thorny debate, nor publicly expose illegal bolting. But now that:
a) the rabbit is out of the bag (thanks Voytek for being open and honest, and answering my questions) and,
b) this forum is one place where we can still maintain some freedom of expression

I have no intention of deleting the post.

My initial and personal thought (i.e. do NOT read as the entire truth of the matter) when I saw the bolts, was that they were out of place, and I didn't like seeing them there. Why? I'm very much in favour of leaving a select few places conserved, wild and untamed, no matter how big or small the perceived impact.

For me it's nothing to do with a bolting vs trad debate, it's more about preservation of pristine environments. I also thought that whoever placed these bolts must have thought that it is really important to do so given the effort and cost to do it, and the many other existing places to do so, and maybe Voytec could exaplain why he went to such extreme effort (if only to satisfy my final bit of curiosity).

Point is, by raising it here you not only jeopardise future routes but exisiting ones as well. The points you raised are indeed debatable but IMO the specifics aren't necessary and can only have a negative impact on climbing in general in the western cape when (inevitably) word get's out. If that's your goal well :thumleft:


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:54 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
The 'Wild and untamed' matter aside...

This matter is bound to come up at some point in time, why not grab it by the horns and sort it out?
Greg has taken the first few steps already.
Thinking that 'Park Officials' don't already know about bolts in the areas is probably naive of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Well said Justin, all it takes is a motivated person to see it through, Im happy to help with the proposal for the plan as I have given it a fair bit of thought already, It would need someone to run with it from there (most likely attending a bunch of boring meetings) to get it approved by CN. The MCSA have already pledged support and help with this initiative and are willing to 'rubber stamp' the proposal (subject to approval) so that it will bear weight when brought before CN for consideration. Having a proper plan in place will sort out some of the infighting thats going on about where to bolt etc. that seems to be plagueing the climbing community recently.

YES, thats right, its all MY fault for not completing the proposal! :bom: LOL! Im burnt out on climbing so dont have the passion or time to devote to this sort of thing. Any keen dudes/dudettes out there?

PS All said Im not even sure Huthinson's falls in Limietberg so the management plan may not help there? Maybe we could extend the scope of the plan to include other reserves?

PPS Please camouflage hangers with high quality automative paint (DUCO - Aerolak spray cans do not last as the paint chips off quickly) no matter wher you are bolting. Bolts are an eyesore in Natural areas. Please consider other users, like hikers, when thinking of bolting.

PPPS Perhaps previous routes have not recieved this negative publicity simply because theyre 'out of the way' enough not to be seen by many? Im pretty sure Voytek would have thought Duiwelskloof was quite out of the way. How many ppl actually go up there?


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:35 pm 
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@Stu: what are you really concerned about?

@Justin: Yes, we can put the "Wild and untamed" matter aside. We humans have proved that that is one option available to us, and we're very good at choosing that option (a great example is putting the issue of nuclear waste aside for future generations to deal with, the imminent Fracking exploration in the Karoo is another winner example).

Maybe it's time to exercise another option, e.g. making preservation and sustainable land-use a priority, and take development away as the default. The management plan is a fantastic idea as I'm sure it will incorporate consideration of impacts and responsible choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:05 pm 
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Stephen wrote:
@Stu: what are you really concerned about?

Unnecessarily pissing off the authorities and jeopardising future access / new routing.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
Most of the kloofing abseils in that kloof are bolted (new and shiny, chains hanging off trees etc). Nobody, (me included) bothers to get an access permit. So it is to be expected that someone finds it suitable behaviour to bolt without asking permission.

What I do not understand is why bolters do not consult before they bolt? If we as a community do not police ourselves, CN will go the way government did with 4x4 driving on beaches. Hiding it from CN will not make the issue (which keeps creeping up) go away.

BTW does CN spend any of the millions they are reaping from their properties to remove the hakia that's taking over (causing much greater destruction than any bolted line will ever do)? Maybe CN needs to put "conservation" back in their name.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Real Name: voytek modrzewsski
Hello again
I answered stu what he wanted to know.


For those who stand such rigid stand in guarding the law and never actually venture out there to see for yourselves- just to let you know there are numerous sites all over the kloof where local rastafarians grow what is commonly known as weed- will you report them to the police too? please do- that will male interesting governmental outing to the duivels kloof- helicopter pesticide raid and cnc swat teams investigating stainless steel sterk pro.

guys- its a route - relax- lets enjoy climbing in western cape - like i said - independent route - seeking good rock otherwise not protectable with gear- ie - a sports route- everyone knows its a bit*** of an effort to bol;t an 11 pitch route- it takes perseverance - resources and experience- its all included-
cool- shiny bolts - ok we will make them matt black chromolly paint - shoe shine- you wint see them - besides the point that 1st bolt is 8 metres up- that just tells you something aboyt the route alreay.


The bolting agenda in western cape - especially long routes is such an ordeal that pretty much it took care of the enthusiasm in that direction all the way. No one wants to do it because of the drafts been drafted since as far as i can remember.

Hey - i am always amped to find new sport routes at hellfire - even though its "illegal" to bolt there
we all know the story with hellfire- they wanted the status but needed the quadruple lane higway through it too... thats cnc for ya... etc etc

for all the angry souls out there no one calls ownership of the kloof- i just happen to live around the corner
i been to the kloof more than most probably anyone on the forum- climbed trad routes there and flew gliders off off the tops of peaks in the area not to mention other epics. We had a friend die in the kloof and other interesting stories- This sports route is just part of the story.

Its an awesome line- hopefully when its complete - if it will be given to do so- it will be awesome clean long challenging line- with piss walk in as well as awesome safe and quick abseil off the face- there are handfull of trad lines on kakish rock as well as good rock and opportunity to open more lines on trad- unfortunately the area has a stigma of - loose plate - quake fault - avalanch crazy timebomb etc.

Come and explore climb trad climb sport - relax ous... panties up now - c'mon

thank you for your time
regards and big ups to all the climbers out there
voytek


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Voytek, I seriasly doubt gawwerment would roll in the kloof with pesticide. More likely a pack of big blades, 2l fanta orange and a big box of romany creams. Awe

If you really want to keep it pristine, don't tell people about the sport route there. Better yet, don't go thrashing over the poor plants to get there.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
XMod wrote:
PS All said Im not even sure Huthinson's falls in Limietberg so the management plan may not help there? Maybe we could extend the scope of the plan to include other reserves?


It falls in the Groot Drakenstein part of the Hottentots Holland Nature Reserve. The manager of the area is at Nuweberg (close to Grabouw). I am not sure who it currently is or their attitude to bolting. That said there are a couple of crags on the walk in to Suicide Gorge that have bolts, where they take Outward Bound-style groups for abseiling.

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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Thanks! I hope that my curiosity (which is now satisfied) does not kill the rabbit (the one that was supposed to be a cat), that is now out the bag! Thanks again Voytek for responding.


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 Post subject: Re: Duiwelskloof
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:17 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Bolts with "piss" walk ins bring people. Bolt it and they will come. Add the word "awesome" and it's a Tsunami. Simple truth is if you wanna keep the place pristine don't bolt it.

I am not aware of any unbolted climbing area that is an issue except, maybe Lost World in the whole of SA.

Voytek from your utterances you have advertised this place as an easily accessible "destination" for "awesome" climbing. Don't be surprised at the consequences...

I have been reading this thread with interest. Indeed, it's not about trad vs sport. It's about bolting....


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