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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:10 am 
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I had a bash at creating a consensus ranking for grading the most popular sport routes consistently across different crags and across the country.

The trick is to have climbers forget about grade for a moment and to rank routes in order of difficulty. By having several people do this, any individual inaccuracies and personal strengths + weaknesses tend to cancel out. Not thinking about grade helps concentrate on the problem at hand: how hard the routes are with respect to other routes.

(Saying A is harder than B rather than B is harder than A is usually not ego-driven: with number grades it's often different.)

An Aggregate List is formed from the individual ranking lists. This is the list that is in best agreement with all individual lists. (A computer program is used to minimise sum of pairwise rank disagreements between all individual lists and the Aggregate List.)

I got the following climbers to provide ranking lists: Alan Hills, Garron Fish, Harry Crews, Jacques Redelinghuys, Jimbo Smith, Karen Varga, Keith Forbes, Paul Brouard, Paul Prozesky, Phlip Olivier, Richard Halsey, Steve Bradshaw.

This is quite Cape-biased. Any nominations for climbers from elsewhere that might provide lists? More Cape input will help too.

A number grade can then be assigned once the Aggregate List is formed.

The premise is simple: a route cannot be graded harder if it ranks easier.

Here is the Aggregate List:
< 24, Goonie Goo Goo, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV KF PB PO
< 24, Shagadelic, Montagu, AH PP PO
< 24, Walk on By, Montagu, JS KF PO
< 24, Miss Mckinley, Boven, AH PB PP PO
< 24, Sickle Moon, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
< 24, Fin, Fang, Fly, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PO
< 24, The Neuromancer, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PP PO
< 24, Rude Bushman, Boven, AH JS KV PB PP PO
< 24, The Church of Frederico, Montagu, AH JS KV PO
< 24, Phallic Mechanic, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PO
< 24, The Jester, Montagu, KF PP PO

soft 24, Rock-Chucka-Chick, Boven, KF PP PO
soft 24, Rattle and Hum, Montagu, JS PP PO
soft 24, Jimmy and the Big Boys, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
soft 24, Eddy of Bovidence, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 24, Atomic Aardvark, Boven, JS PB PP
fair 24, Behr Hug, Oudtshoorn, AH GF JS KV KF PO
hard 24, Cyberpunk, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
hard 24, Freak On, Boven, AH JS KF PP PO
hard 24, Swan Lake, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PP PO
soft 25, Red Guitar on Fire, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
soft 25, First Wave, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 25, Madiba, Montagu, GF JS KF PO RH
fair 25, Holy Moly, Montagu, AH KV PO
hard 25, Big Foot, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PP PO RH
soft 26, Paws, Oudtshoorn, AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
fair 26, Thruster, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
fair 26, Leap Tide, Montagu, AH JR PO RH
hard 26, Sid Vicious, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PP PO RH
hard 26, Digital Bitch, Montagu, GF JS KF PP PO
soft 27, Chocolate Eclair, Boven, AH HC PO
soft 27, The Optimist, Montagu, AH GF JS KV KF PO
soft 27, Menopaws, Oudtshoorn, JS PP PO RH
fair 27, Johnny Rotten, Oudtshoorn, AH JR JS KV PB PO RH
fair 27, Simply Irresistible, Montagu, AH HC JR JS KF PO
hard 27, Lotter's Desire, Boven, AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PO RH
hard 27, Neanderthal Rex, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PO
soft 28, All That Glitters Is Gold, The Mine, GF HC JR JS KV KF PP PO
soft 28, Rad and Bad, Montagu, JS KF PO
soft 28, Daze of Thunder, Montagu, AH GF HC JR JS KV KF PO RH
fair 28, Whoa She Poopie, Montagu, HC JR JS KV PO
fair 28, Trainspotting, Silvermine, AH PO RH
hard 28, Burning Chrome, Montagu, JS KF PO
hard 28, Eraserhead, Boven, HC KV PB RH
hard 28, A Gift of Wings, The Mine, AH HC JS KF PP PO
hard 28, Firestarter!, Montagu, AH HC JS KF PB PO SB
soft 29, Mono, The Mine, JS KF PO
soft 29, Going Going Gone, Oudtshoorn, AH HC PO
soft 29, Monkey Pump, Montagu, AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
soft 29, Seven (Wimp Finish), Oudtshoorn, AH HC JS KV PB PO RH
fair 29, Cool Like That, Montagu, AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
fair 29, Monster, Boven, HC JS PB PO
fair 29, Snapdragon, Boven, GF HC JS KV PB PP RH SB
hard 29, Twisted Steel and Sex Appeal, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
hard 29, Ben Dover, Montagu, AH HC JS
soft 30, Point Break, Montagu, AH HC JR JS KV KF PO SB
soft 30, Golden Eye, Kalk Bay, JS KF PO
soft 30, El Nino, Oudtshoorn, HC JS KV PB PO RH SB
soft 30, Hypoxia, Montagu, GF JS KF PB PO SB
fair 30, Up for Grabs, Oudtshoorn, AH HC JS PO SB
hard 30, The Activist, Montagu, AH HC JS KV KF PO SB
> 30, Jack of All Trades, Boven, HC JS SB
> 30, Strange Days, Montagu, HC JS SB
> 30, Switchbitch, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
> 30, Kohler-Turkstra, Oudtshoorn, HC JS SB
> 30, Short Circuit, Oudtshoorn, HC JS SB


Initials indicate who ranked the route.

Number grades are interpolated based on rank. The median rank of routes for each number grade gives a fair measure of what each number grade is considered to be (using 8a.nu data).

If you'd like to help by adding your list then let me know. The more climbers and the more routes ranked, the better.
keith2000@gmail.com


Last edited by Keith on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Sup Keith

Check out 8a.nu. Yes maybe they dont come to a grade consensus, but you can see what people logged it as and what you logged it as. Also note that consensus is varies from short people to tall people, dudes with long arms or with large biceps, every human body is created differently, every route is a different difficulty dependent directly on what and where you climb most and therefore every aspect must be taken into account.

THIS IS WHY ONLY PEOPLE THAT SEND A ROUTE CAN GRADE IT. This is what 8a.nu strives toward, but obviously the system is not flawless. People misspel names and then you have a route like Goony Goo Goo, Goonie Goo Goo, etc making it difficult too create a formal consensus.

In the end of the day, climb what you want too climb, dont let grades go too your head and push the limit too what you make it too be.

Everybody has a different opinions. I find short hard lines easier than long endurance lines where Alex would find the exact opposite. Therefore its unfair to say that a route is (for example) a definite 24. Grade is a personal opinion. Thats it.

In boven you can have absolutely 0 core strenght and the best crimping strength with some endurance and you can crush hard, go to montagu and those 2 abilities will almost get you nowhere as you require core too fight the overhang and sideways gradient of the rock.

Some of the lines that you have used in your post have vastly different grades according too different individuals.

Another factor that can be taken into account is your climbing ethics. Some people climb far away from the bolts and call a route soft, where if another guy did a direct version a completely different line has been climbed. Some routes are eliminative according too the 1st ascentionist, meanwhile when Jan gets too the crag, he doesnt know what line should be climbed, so he climbs the easiest way up, within arms reach of the bolts and gets told later he wasnt suppose too use certain holds.... Eliminative routes are contrived, for example Whoa She Poopie. Go look at the logs on 8a.nu 27, 28, 29, 30.

I think hypoxia is an easy 29, you say hard 30.

Clinton gave Wipe-out a 30 as an FA, Marijus gave it 32. I tried it, didnt send so its not my place to say (I thought it was a 31).

Both great climbers, whose right?

Ebert
Stop trying to grade a route specifically and realize that people are different.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:45 pm 
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hey Keith

The idea is great but i failed the greater and less than sign stuff at school...
Are you (the panel) saying that Gooonie GooGoo and Sickle Moon are less than 24 ?
If that is affirmative then the guide books will say the same thing as both those routes are graded at 22 which is about right.
Or am i not understanding this ? Its possible cause i'm not that bright.
:cyclops:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Real Name: Gavin Earle
It is also increasingly inaccurate the bigger the gap becomes between what they are able to climb eg30 and what they are grading eg16. I have seen cases where a hardman has opened a long easy route say 17 because that was his impression, and he hardly noticed the "one" hard 20 move. This route would shut down anyone not capable of grade 20 yet would feel 17 to everyone who could climb say 24 and up. But if you can climb grade 32 you sure know what is grade 33.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Why is there this ridiculous stereotype that "30's climbers" cant grade a 17?
Some "30's climbers" don't seem to be able to grade 30's, no wonder they get the 17's wrong as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:33 pm 
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The point been that some people can grade accurately accross grades and others simply can not.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Of course we all know that if you climb for the grade, your life will be empty and meaningless and your soul will fall out. And some stuff is like mORPHO bro and on and on.

The point here is this. If you want to get the most objective grading then this is how you ought to do it.

That is: forget about numbers. Rank routes. Then assign the numbers afterwards.

Rank, rank, rank. No numbers. Order the rawtz by difficulty. There you have it.

To quote, ahem, myself: "This would stop people from being anchored by the commonly-held bizarre notion that the given-grade is somehow an inherent property of the route rather than a guidebook. And would also remove the emotional issues people seem to have about grade inflation and so forth --- as the obfuscating notions of grading hard/soft, sandbagging, appeasing girlfriends with cheap grades &c &c would disappear."

FORKET: Good points. PAUL: Yes you are correct. Grey'd out those ones to reduce confusion. DRAGON: I think are probably right, but DAVIDWADE does not...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:43 pm 
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I like the idea, I think it has merit and that's why I took part in it.

I personally think that consensus is the only way that one can truly get an idea of how hard a route is, it needs a person prepared to document their ascents and also to be honest about the how difficult the climbing was though.

Here's an example, let's say someone opens a route at 25 and it gets repeated by ten people, two of which say it is 24, six of which say it is soft for 25 and the other two saying it's a 25, you can get an idea that it might be 24. If you decide at this point to start calling the route a 24, you might get a majority saying that it is either an easy or a hard 24 and the grade will begin to settle. By the time that 100 people have climbed it, you get a far clearer idea of how hard it is.

I have one problem with Keith's ranking system though, it is very difficult to rank climbs from easy to hard without having a rough guide. My reasoning is as follows: I have been climbing for about five years and I think that I am still improving as a climber. The 20 that I tried four years ago felt about as hard as the 24 that I tried three years ago. The first 28 I did felt MUCH harder than the first 30 that I climbed.
Because I am getting stronger, harder routes are feeling easier and that says to me that ranking routes from easy to hard alone will lead to some quite inaccurate results. I think you might say that my situation is an anomaly that will get averaged out, but I think it is more of a normal trend for most climbers and presents an unpredictable variable for a simple easiest to hardest ranking system.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:27 pm 
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No idea where you guys got the idea that an established 29 like Hypoxia is a 30. It's just a bouldery 29. And Activist is SOFT, barely 30, nothing hard about it. I could redo it consistently at the flip of a switch, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would solo it but it is likely easier than a route like Monster in Boven. I guess I don't really get a say, I was too busy to help out with this. There are other bouldery routes that are of similar grades that are just as hard to send because it is so hard to stop and clip. It doesn't mean they deserve an upgrade. Stitch It (29) is damn tough for most people; Pit Fighter (31) is a BITCH, partially because it is so sharp.

I'm siding with Alan on this one... Certain routes feel hard and others feel easy when you're initially doing them. For months and months I couldn't do a single link on the burly Lab Rat (33) in Boven. Then all of the sudden I did it in a weekend while I was working an endurance route? Sometimes your body just clicks with a route and it goes. I spent ages and ages doing Stormwatch and I cannot repeat it easily at all, but it is not the hardest 32 I've done. Different people are different heights and have different skills. Up For Grabs was very hard for me, I'm not a dyno specialist like Alan :thumleft: but I can walk all over Menopause which btw if Big Foot was elected to be 25 and Paws 26 where did you get 27? You're still only climbing a 26, I believe I pointed this out when I flashed Big Foot and then continued to the chains of Paws. Oudtshoorn is toooooo soft in general. If anything, I'm glad it is getting a bit of a downgrading. I'm surprised El Nino didn't finally get put down to 29.


Attachments:
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Here you go, angry people:

Quote:
If you'd like to help by adding your list then let me know. The more climbers and the more routes ranked, the better.
keith2000@gmail.com


:p


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Reminds me of a time ALL THOSE YEARS AGO when i belayed Proze on Sterling Silver. He had come down to Cpt for a weekend.
We had a little chat after he was on the route about the grading and i mentioned that a lot of people had suggested Sterling Silver was only 21.(its 22 in Tony's book i think).
His response was ''no friggin ways, its deffo 22''....
Now that he is climbing 29 and knocking on the door of the climbing elite he would most certainly say SS is a 21 if he had jumped on it now for the 1st time....or will you Proze ?
so i agree 100% with what Dragon is saying.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Haha, definitely soft 21. :jocolor:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:49 pm 
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OK...I gotta jump in here seeing as Sterling Silver is mentioned :P
To me...endurance must be accounted for when grading.
That being said. Sterling Silver has no hard moves, but it is rather sustained after the first roof and is loooooong by most 22/21 standards.
I've climbed harder than 22 and have climbed a few 22's and struggled my arse off on that route :P
So for me 22...but as I believe. Grading is very personal.

I think the best suggestion was give the route a ranking.
Sterling Silver>Bangkok Betty>Goonie Goo Goo for example and assign a number as a guide to help people who haven't climbed something yet :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Thanx Keith for doing this, good work!

Im glad to see 'Neanderthal Rex' in a hard 27(eish that one) category, but 'the Optimist' as soft 27 I found way harder... and that's just shortass me. Could NOT do 'Cool Like That', but I got 'Point Break', so I guess its diff bodies being able to do different things.

But you won't hear me cry and bitch about it btw....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Hi all......

Keith I am dissapointed oke. I would've expected a nice complex mathematical formula that would have favoured off the couch strong okes like you.

Herewith my 2 cents:

1] Locals can't grade. If you lap a route you know it too well to grade it. Get an honest opinion from a visitor.
2] Grades really should be for the onsight - its the most noble form of ascent. If a route requires some tricky beta, then we all know its a relatively easy redpoint.
3] We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Respect other peoples opinions and get a consensus

I saw Arnaud Petit hike ElNino [30] and then downgrade ShortCircuit from 32 to 31. But then he got shutdown at the dyno of Up For Grabs which was originally graded 32. Seems like Oudtshoorn is a bit soft, especially for visiting euros. I had a Spanish mate think that Boven was brick hard and struggled with Red Guitar. But he found Oudtshoorn easy [wonder why?]

Brian I think everyone graded Hypoxia per the book as they didn't want to be seen as softies. It must be hard - Douw Steyn hasn't done it yet!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:33 am 
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FYI
Ondra: “I do think that everybody should say as honestly as possible what he thinks about the grade of the route after the send. I wouldn’t call it downgrading—I would call it a personal suggestion or opinion. It is easy to stick to the guidebook’s grade, but how does it feel when you are sure that it is not as hard? It feels totally wrong for me, and that is why I didn’t hesitate to say my honest opinion.

It seems to me that grades were really stiff in the 1980s and 90s, but then, strangely enough, inflation occurred. And what is happening right now is trying to find a point somewhere in between hardcore grades of the past and inflated grades of modern age. That means downgrading some new climbs and upgrading the old climbs.”


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:04 pm 
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You guys are talking in circles.

GRADING IS A PERSONAL OPINION, thats it.

Ebert Nel
Some Would Say


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Ebert Nel is dead right: this is about opinions. And confusingly aggregating opinions has a wide range of applications: rating the difficulty of university courses, or the quality of movies, books, webpages, and so forth, which politicians to elect, the price of a stock, and so on. I realise now that GUARD has a range of applications and I ought to be specific. What we are talking about here is a Climbing Application Requiring GUARD, or CARGUARD for short.

The CARGUARD project is in a sense an extension of an initial collaboration. Some guys set up a google doc that anyone can edit
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avb3X_KE1zwcdC1QcDJXSWRFSThiU0pKeU54amkyN0E&hl=en_US#gid=0
This is probably a good idea so I have set up a google doc too. Please add your name to the bottom of the list and a few routes. This is open to everyone. Your contribution is appreciated. You can do this in your own time, and your short list is better than no list. Easy routes, hard routes, Cape routes, non-Cape routes: all are needed.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VFkwFkziS-ZRjLUo7PrfaOvRgF4uv7MblE37IBrLPYg/edit

An updated Aggregate List can be created at the press of a button.

The idea of the CARGUARD system is not that it is flawless but rather that it is more accurate and useful than other available methods such as guidebooks, or averaging number grades on 8a.nu. It brings grades for different crags in line. All methods will have the problems of different strengths and weaknesses, hazy recollections, improved ability over time. But CARGUARD has advantages over the other methods (see above) that tend to mitigate these problems.

@brianweaver: There is no rush to do this, and your input will be very useful. I have taken the liberty of starting your list with the four-route ranking implied by your post. Please add some more routes when you have the chance. Even if it is just a handful. Perhaps you know some Joburg okes that you can pressure into providing their ranking lists too. I took your idea of using Monster as benchmark (fair) 29 and Jack of All Trades as benchmark 30 (see http://www.climbing.co.za/2012/02/where-did-the-8a-benchmark-go/). This has the effect of taking El Nino and Hypoxia under 30 (as you suspected).

CARGUARD can be extended to provide a measure of the variability in opinion for each route. This will be interesting. For some routes there will be more agreement to the difficulty than others. This can be quantified.

There are two parts to CARGUARD: (1) forming the Aggregate List and (2) fitting number grades to the ranks. I think part 1 is the most interesting. For instance, it shows Walk on By is considered to be easier than Sickle Moon even though Tony's guide book implies the opposite. Regardless of what the numbers are---you might grade them 9006 and 9012---the important thing is that what is considered to be the more difficult route cannot have a lower number grade.

@Thermophage thanks for the interest and the backing of the ranking idea. Can you provide a list?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VFkwFkziS-ZRjLUo7PrfaOvRgF4uv7MblE37IBrLPYg/edit

I think AndyDavies is correct no one wants to be seen as a pussy, the one oke who gives a higher grade. Xenomorph is right that grade inflation is occurring. The nice thing about ranking is that you can see where that AdK route from the 80s fits in without worrying about what a particular number grade means has changed over the years. (This confuses people about money too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_illusion)

FWIW, here's the new Aggregate List:

< 24, Goonie Goo Goo, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV KF PB PO
< 24, Shagadelic, Montagu, AH PP PO
< 24, Walk on By, Montagu, JS KF PO
< 24, Sickle Moon, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
< 24, Fin, Fang, Fly, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PO
< 24, The Neuromancer, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PP PO
< 24, Miss Mckinley, Boven, AH PB PP PO
< 24, Rude Bushman, Boven, AH JS KV PB PP PO
< 24, Phallic Mechanic, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PO
< 24, The Church of Frederico, Montagu, AH JS KV PO
< 24, The Jester, Montagu, KF PP PO
soft 24, Rock-Chucka-Chick, Boven, KF PP PO
soft 24, Rattle and Hum, Montagu, JS PP PO
soft 24, Cactus Palace, Waterval Boven, KF PP
soft 24, Jimmy and the Big Boys, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
soft 24, Eddy of Bovidence, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 24, Rapscallion La Codge, Oudtshoorn, JS PP
fair 24, Women Ain't Nothing but Trouble, Waterval Boven, KV PP
fair 24, Cleinous Hing, Montagu, AH PO
fair 24, Atomic Aardvark, Boven, JS PB PP
fair 24, Behr Hug, Oudtshoorn, AH GF JS KV KF PO
hard 24, Cyberpunk, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
hard 24, Hunks on the Ceiling, Truitjieskraal, KF RH
hard 24, Freak On, Boven, AH JS KF PP PO
hard 24, Swan Lake, The Mine, AL AH GF JS KV KF PP PO
soft 25, Beautiful Day, Montagu, AL PO
soft 25, Brother Bear, Oudtshoorn, AL AH JS
soft 25, Lord Melbury, Silvermine, KF RH
soft 25, Red Guitar on Fire, The Mine, AL AH GF JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
soft 25, First Wave, Montagu, AL AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 25, Jambo, Boven, PP RH
fair 25, Madiba, Montagu, GF JS KF PO RH
fair 25, Holy Moly, Montagu, AH KV PO
hard 25, Dungeons and Dragons, Boven, AL AH
hard 25, Hueco Punks, Truitjieskraal, KF RH
hard 25, Big Foot, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PP PO RH
soft 26, Paws, Oudtshoorn, AL AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
soft 26, Silver Streak, Silvermine, KF RH
fair 26, Delete Button, Montagu, AL RH
fair 26, Thruster, Montagu, AL AH JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
fair 26, Digital Bitch, Montagu, GF JS KF PP PO
hard 26, Leap Tide, Montagu, AH JR PO RH
hard 26, Sid Vicious, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PP PO RH
hard 26, Pocket Rocket, Kalk Bay, PB PP
soft 27, Chocolate Eclair, Boven, AL AH HC PO
soft 27, Wings of Glory, Kleinmond, AH PO
soft 27, Menopaws, Oudtshoorn, JS PP PO RH
soft 27, The Optimist, Montagu, AL AH GF JS KV KF PO
fair 27, Half Quick, Oudtshoorn, HC RH
fair 27, Hell Yeah, Boven, AH HC
fair 27, Simply Irresistible, Montagu, AL AH HC JR JS KF PO
fair 27, Lost Safari, Oudtshoorn, JS RH
fair 27, The Happy Hooker, The Mine, HC KF
fair 27, Johnny Rotten, Oudtshoorn, AL AH JR JS KV PB PO RH
hard 27, Route 66, The Hole, JS KF
hard 27, Lotter's Desire, Boven, AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PO RH
hard 27, Winston, Kleinmond, AH PO
hard 27, Neanderthal Rex, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PO
soft 28, All That Glitters Is Gold, The Mine, GF HC JR JS KV KF PP PO
soft 28, Rad and Bad, Montagu, JS KF PO
soft 28, Daze of Thunder, Montagu, AH GF HC JR JS KV KF PB PO RH
fair 28, Whoa She Poopie, Montagu, HC JR JS KV PO
fair 28, Trainspotting, Silvermine, AH PO RH
fair 28, Virus, The Hole, JS KF
fair 28, Burning Chrome, Montagu, JS KF PO
fair 28, Eraserhead, Boven, HC KV PB RH
hard 28, A Gift of Wings, The Mine, AL AH HC JS KF PP PO
hard 28, Firestarter!, Montagu, AH HC JS KF PB PO SB
hard 28, Hot Toddy Benson, Montagu, HC JS
hard 28, Mono, The Mine, JS KF PO
soft 29, Espionage, Kalk Bay, AH PO
soft 29, Going Going Gone, Oudtshoorn, AH HC PO
soft 29, Monkey Pump, Montagu, AL AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
soft 29, Seven (Wimp Finish), Oudtshoorn, AL AH HC JS KV PB PO RH
soft 29, Hard Play, Oudtshoorn, HC PO
fair 29, Monster, Boven, AL BW HC JS PB PO
fair 29, Cool Like That, Montagu, AL AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
fair 29, Snapdragon, Boven, GF HC JS KV PB PP RH SB
fair 29, Paragon, Wave Cave, JS SB
fair 29, The Shouting Stage, Montagu, HC JS
hard 29, Twisted Steel and Sex Appeal, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
hard 29, A Gift of Gold, The Mine, KF PO
hard 29, Ben Dover, Montagu, AH HC JS
hard 29, Point Break, Montagu, AH HC JR JS KV KF PO SB
hard 29, El Nino, Oudtshoorn, BW HC JS KV PB PO RH SB
hard 29, Hypoxia, Montagu, BW GF JS KF PB PO SB
soft 30, Golden Eye, Kalk Bay, AL JS KF PO
soft 30, The Vice, Oudtshoorn, HC JS
soft 30, Up for Grabs, Oudtshoorn, AH HC JS PB PO SB
soft 30, The Activist, Montagu, AH BW HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
fair 30, Jack of All Trades, Boven, HC JS SB
fair 30, Mama Africa, Oudtshoorn, HC JS
fair 30, Catholic School Girls Rule, Montagu, JS PO
> 30, Strange Days, Montagu, HC JS SB
> 30, Switchbitch, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
> 30, Kohler-Turkstra, Oudtshoorn, HC JS SB
> 30, Short Circuit, Oudtshoorn, HC JS PB SB
> 30, The Beast, Boven, AL JS
> 30, Barricade, Wave Cave, PB SB
> 30, Godzilla, Boven, HC JS

AL = Adam Ludford
BW = Brian Weaver


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Forket wrote:
Clinton gave Wipe-out a 30 as an FA, Marijus gave it 32. I tried it, didnt send so its not my place to say (I thought it was a 31).


:thumright :thumleft: genius.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:21 am 
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 248
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Cormac Tooze
Keith has asked if you okes could add to the list, I have contributed on the easier side of the grading,

***Cormac Tooze***

Frasers Variation

Flakes

India Somersault

Argent

Bombay Duck

Cool hand Luke

Who Knows?

Escalator

deBruin Damage

Drop Zone

Pistolero

Sterling Silver

The Arête/ First Impressions

Toreador of Torque

Jono Gordon’s route

The Abyss

Blaze of Glory

Bravest Orangutan in Britain

In God’s country

Cedar Rouge

King Cobra

Voices

Sickle Moon

Trance Dance

Eddy of Bovidence


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