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 Post subject: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:13 am
Posts: 21
As some of you might have heard, there has been an incident at chosspile where Andrew Pedley's gear was stolen. I would like to admit that I was responsible for this. I would like to apologize to Andrew. And I am sorry for causing harm to the trust that climbers in SA have in their fellow climbers. And I am sorry for breaking the rule "don't fuck up"... which I clearly did... (including some Facebook mistake I am going to laugh about in the future)
I hope we can look past this and move on...


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:07 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Gavin Earle
Ja - not sure if you were coerced into making this apology to avoid ?prosecution? (or perhaps persecution) or if it is of the heart-felt kind, but at least there is an apology, that shows at least some guts. Might help to know the story behind the story? What were you thinking??


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Real Name: Everyday Troll
respect, thats taking the shot deserved

eT


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:13 am
Posts: 21
Dragon wrote:
What were you thinking??


That I was scoring some quickdraws and a rope .... and after that... thats when the thinking stopped...

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:34 pm
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Real Name: Everyday Troll
Back to the laughing about this picture, why are you the only one apologizing? Shouldn't there be two of you?

eT


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:55 am
Posts: 275
Location: Pretoria
Real Name: Brian Weaver
When Andrew and I arrived yesterday morning and found the rope cut with draws stolen, obviously by a climber as the sling used to prussik was still in situ, we were shocked that someone, a climber, could have the audacity to actually cut someone's rope that was being used to bolt a new l line. I'm still appalled by the situation and think the 80m rope needs to be replaced!

I'm scared to think that there are people like you out in the climbing scene! I'm glad you're owning up, after trying to lie when confronted. then you didn't have the decency to meet Andrew face to face to apologise! Shame on you!

Climbing is based on trust and mutual respect and you've shaken that for the whole community!

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Last edited by brianweaver on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:42 pm
Posts: 122
WTF are you apologizing on this forum for. Contact Andrew directly and make amends and stop wasting our time criminal!


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:45 pm
Posts: 222
Real Name: Franz Fuls
I second that, oubaas.

Hanno, If I were you I would get off this forum, buy Andrew a beer and find a way offline and in private to fix the damage. Elaborating on this poll will only grow a lot of bitterness all round. The way I see it, the only way for you to get absolution is to make right and let the one you wronged welcome you back. Not sure what your chances are.

Nobody forgets their gear at the crag. If it is not yours, then you have no right to it, and should leave it there.
If its yours and don't belong there, take it with you ( ie rubbish, etc).These are real basic crag rules, and also applies to your general existence.

Maybe if you give him a chance, Andrew can rehabilitate you more efficiently than correctional services, but that of course is up to him. Personally I am visualizing a really big hex.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:10 am
Posts: 74
I will definitely NOT look past this but directly at it. You committed a criminal offense and through the kindness of Andrew have got off very lightly. Your apology is weak and the tone shows no remorse. I am glad however that you did make a public posting and that it will serve the climbing community in general as a warning to others who may have the same mindset as you that we the community will not tolerate such behaviour.

Lets hope your partner in crime has some balls to apologize as well.

Hope not to see you at the crags.

The CF


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:24 am
Posts: 160
Location: Durban
Quote:
(including some Facebook mistake I am going to laugh about in the future)


I have to agree with Colin about the tone. It gives me the feeling that the only thing you are remorseful about is getting caught. Our community is based on trust but over and beyond that, what decent human being goes and steals what is not theirs and what they can't take they damage? Its disgusting.
Dude, you're lucky that most of the climbers are nice people and will give you a second chance (if you are truly remorseful) but this one is gonna burn for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 717
Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
Fool needs a thrashing. Its a communal responsibility.

You will be doing him a life favour.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:32 pm
Posts: 46
Real Name: chris m-w
Well at least you're famous now .....
and you've had a climb named after you ..... :oops:
"He's a witch , burn him , burn him !!!"

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm
Posts: 333
hanno, you need to apologise to Ivan van der Tang as well, you stole 3 of his draws of Fossil Fuel. I am disappointed you could not meet one of us in person, or even answer my calls, I wanted to chat to better understand why you did this; I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were a total beginner and didn't realise that the stuff had not been abandoned, but maybe I was wrong. One question...why didn't you prusik all the way to the anchor so that you could take the rope without cutting it? I now have a rope that is 15 metres shorter than it was. Do you want to go to Chospile with me this week? I think belaying me on the route (aptly named Kleptomaniac by Brian) might serve as a sort of corrective treatment! Let me know, I can climb any day of the week and would pick you up your estate. Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 38
Real Name: Arnold de Beer
This is super sad! Think it boils down to a lack of respect and ignorance!

And instead of lynching the guy, how about 20 hours of path building and weeding! :thumleft:


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:39 am
Posts: 46
Real Name: Mike J
Not much of an apology. You are lucky Andrew is so gracious. Want to really apologize? Replace the rope you ruined.

The rule you broke is: Don't be an asshole.

http://www.splitterchoss.com/2011/01/06/the-only-rule-dont-be-an-hole/

Quote:
This guy stealing draws: asshole.


That's you.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:13 am
Posts: 150
Location: Benoni
Real Name: David Wade
I hope you intend to replace the rope.
80 meter rope cut! :(


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:18 am
Posts: 39
Real Name: Dawie Oberholzer
Jee wis this is very sad, lucky for "you" Ivan and Andrew P along with Brian loves this sport and is very mutch relaxed and chilled huys, i atleast had guys like Ivan and Ruan K that i started climbing with that guided me and showed met the way of of "doing things" around the crag...

i would not go as far a a leagal process that would just be a waste of time and money spent away from the crag...

but hey Andrew P gave you a chance i would take it and make it right...

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 583
Real Name: Warren Gans
Agreed with most comments above, what was done was theft and does against the honest culture that climbing is based upon. The apology was only because he was caught, rather than some gut remorse and so punishment is needed.

I think after replacing the rope ( and the two cut sections staying with original owner) 20 hours of path maintenance and removal from the community IE to be shunned beyond finding a climbing partner for the weekend and blacklisting from any climbing clubs or gyms. I personally will appose Mr Bisshof joining the MCSA other than helping at crag maintenance days. Could we talk to the people managing the register about banning him from the reserve? I am sure once we explain the situation to them they will be most accommodating.

The one upshot of this is the community's reaction to this sets a precedent for future incidences.

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Last edited by Warren G on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm
Posts: 333
I did not want to be in this, but before we mob this guy, he did write an apology yesterday, before it went public. See below. I really think he is just a total ignorant newbie and maybe a bit of a spoilt chop with it. Rather than alienate him and make him into a bigger dick, better to educate him, at least give him a chance, my offer of taking you out still stands Hanno. We hitting Chos 2moro. You can carry my sandwiches.

Hannos apology of Sunday:

I am sorry for this whole mess I have made. I am not a criminal. But I am a liar and for that I am sorry. When Me and my brother went to Chosspile it was our first climb at a real crag. We were so exited. And when we saw the draws just hanging there we couldn’t believe that people would just leave them there. And the rope as well. We then did the stupidest thing and cut your rope and took your draws and climbed the rest of the day. Thinking that we scored some old draws and a written off rope. When I saw the post on Exploratio about the “thieves of Chosspile” I started panicking and thinking: Do I tell Ebert, whom I just met and seems like a nice guy and a passionate climber, or do I keep It a secret. I then chose to keep it a secret like a thief. And I cleaned the pain off with thinners and kept on lying to you. I wish I didn’t and I wish I just told you as soon as you called. I know this sounds like I am not sorry for what I did. But I am. I know you probably want to kill me of shove me off a cliff or something. But I am sorry. And please realize that I could’ve just kept lying and denying that they were yours and ignore the barcode fact. But I didn’t. And that is not because of the evidence. It is because I thought what it would’ve been like If I was a climber and some stupid kid stole my gear at a project. I would've wanted to smash his face in… And you have the fullest right to do that. But please consider that I am trying to make good what I have done. Your gear is at my Estate’s gate... I would have wanted to give it to you in person but my lift back to University leaves in 15 minutes. I am sorry for lying an being dishonest. I know I am only saying this now that I have been caught, but I wish I just took a moment and thought on that Friday. I am truly sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:25 pm
Posts: 204
Real Name: Wesley
andrew p wrote:
I did not want to be in this, but before we mob this guy, he did write an apology yesterday, before it went public. See below. I really think he is just a total ignorant newbie and maybe a bit of a spoilt chop with it. Rather than alienate him and make him into a bigger dick, better to educate him, at least give him a chance, my offer of taking you out still stands Hanno. We hitting Chos 2moro. You can carry my sandwiches.


That is really big of you Andrew. Respect! :afro:

@Hanno, take him up on his offer, it will probably be beneficial to your climbing and your rep. And you might make a new friend.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:18 am
Posts: 39
Real Name: Dawie Oberholzer
Wes wrote:
That is really big of you Andrew. Respect! :afro:

@Hanno, take him up on his offer, it will probably be beneficial to your climbing and your rep. And you might make a new friend.


I agree do it the right way and you will gain alot more... to me stealing is stealing and no matter how or what the cost, you took the right steps after being caught... i agree make the example of him, but leave it up to Andrew an Brian to choose his umm punishment, don't spoil the sport before they even started EVERYBODY makes misteaks.

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
yeah i think andrew is striking the right tone here. i understand how upset people are but keep in mind it is a newbie that at least owned up to it. to call him a criminal and wanting to ban him is harsh. let him who is without sin cast the first stone :wink: i'll give him some benefit of the doubt.

btw, legally there can be no prosecution since the gear was abandoned and simply "collected" (or can some legal eagle correct me?).

hope all this turns for good in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Posts: 256
Good on you AndrewP!

It looks like you can be the call desk for all the newbies after all... :jocolor:

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 583
Real Name: Warren Gans
Mok I am not sure about the argument that it was abandoned: is your car abandoned when you park it on the side of the road? Are fishing nets left out abandoned while they are out in the ocean?

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm
Posts: 333
no one is taking anyone to court


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
Good point Warren! I guess there is something about "intention" and "common practice" that will come into play if it were to be tested in court.

Btw, never thought that anybody will be taken to court; more the issue of "if".

Respect Andrew; you are handling this in a great way. Was thinking about great leaders that came from failings because somebody didn't write them off but rather believed in them - sometimes you need to be able to see through that bit of dirt to recognise the diamond underneath. Happy mining!


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:21 am
Posts: 264
Real Name: Henk Grobler
Oh dear. I bet you just want to cover your head and hope the mess vanishes.

Initially I was dumbfounded. Your apology to Andrew clears some of the disbelief and I am glad I resisted the temptation to post last night...

From your previous posts I note that you are a student and were not in a position to buy a set of draws and a rope in the first place. Also seems that you were mighty psyched to start climbing on real rock.

So, my advice is that even if you have to borrow the money, fix the harm you have caused. Honestly admitting your mistake was a good start, but make real amends to replace the cut rope. Then maybe the community will forgive and allow you back in so you can continue with this brilliant sport. This may then become a sign post in real life for you.

Still one of the silliest things I have heard of.

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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 442
Real Name: Everyday Troll
WHO TOOK THE PICTURE????????????????????????????????????????


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Real Name: Everyday Troll
NVM, steffan your a dick for letting your brother take the blame alone

eT
chaos is entertainment


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 Post subject: Re: My Apology...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:34 pm
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Real Name: Everyday Troll
lastly, every photo you took has very bad examples of safety techniques, impressed you didnt kill yourself. When using your new draw, the rope goes into the coloured caribena and silver into the bolts, this is better for your rope as it doesnt run over the grooves made by the bolts.

eT
im done now


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Last edited by Forket on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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