Buying a second rope for trad

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malcs
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Real Name: Malcolm Venter

Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:56 am

I have recently purchased the beginning of my first trad rack (nuts, hex nuts, slings, etc.). I have a rope that is relatively new that I use for sports climbing (A Beal Tiger 10mm).
Should I climb on this one rope? Should I buy a second rope, and if so then what should I buy? Or do I need to buy two new half ropes?
Thanks

ant
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby ant » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:16 am

Hi Malcs,

- You can try trad on a single rope on short pitches, but on Cape Rock (whose routes tend to wander more than granite crack lines do) you will find the rope-drag frustrating. Also, beware that this can also lead to more walking/dislodging of pieces, and or create the 'zipper effect' when you were to fall.

- You can trad with 10mms, they are just slightly heavier, especially when there are two.

- The ideal case is to trad on half-ropes, as you can use the double-rope technique, and they are nice and light. This is very nice, but not essential when you're starting out.

If you're not teaming up regularly with someone and want to be self-sufficient, I'd recommend getting one half-rope, or possibly even a joker, and later you can get it a brother to keep it company.

Charnoenderbite
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Charnoenderbite » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:49 am

When I started tradding I also used my Beal Tiger. It worked okay, but once you started traversing you quickly learned about the concept of rope drag. Climb a bit pull in rope a bit, climb a bit pull in rope. If you do single pitch or very straight multi-pitch climbs a sport rope will work, but in the long run you will want to have two half ropes. Also, two thick sport ropes can become a real pain on a multi-pitch route. If you know you're going to get into trad properly and you have the cash invest in half ropes, otherwise use the sport rope and use nice long runners.

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:11 am

Thanks for the great feedback :) If I bought 1 half rope, then do you have any recommendations?

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Xenomorph
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Xenomorph » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:28 am

I agree with Ant,
Get a half rope to use with your current rope. Maybe you can convince your current climbing partners to buy a 2nd half rope. Everybody should pay there way!

Can't go wrong with a Mammut 8.5 mm genesis, a quality hard wearing rope.
Cheers
Cormac

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Wes
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Wes » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:45 am

You could always use one sport rope (Assuming that the trad piches are less then 30m). One of you ties into the middle and the other ties into both ends. As long as you dont need to rap more then 30m this should work fine. :)

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:11 pm

Thanks for the all the advice guys. Much appreciated.

Ghaznavid
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Ghaznavid » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:46 pm

I use a Beal Verdon rope. 2 ropes is definitely better.

I have tried tieing in into the middle of the rope - it can get rather confusing and the ropes can easily get tangled if you aren't careful - and that will make rope drag worse. You also can't shout "slack on pink", so your belayer needs to be sharp. It can work, its just not always ideal.

What I have also been told is that the 2nd rope also adds a "2nd first piece" - apparently due to the rope not being tight before it pulls on your top piece, the first piece of gear is the one that is least likely to fail.
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

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mountainmailorder
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby mountainmailorder » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:58 am

Hi Malcolm, this topic has been discussed on climb.co.za before. Do some searching.

The net of it is that a single and a skinny half rope as a buddy pair doesn't really work well. You might as well stick to climbing with a single (use more slings), or buy two new skinny half ropes down the line.

Americans only trad with a single rope, they can't be all wrong.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8528&p=44602&hilit=single+half+trad+rope#p44602
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8528&p=44582&hilit=half+single+trad+skinny+rope#p44582
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10307&p=51968&hilit=half+single+trad+skinny+rope#p51968

R

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:37 am

Thanks Robert, apologies for not finding that post earlier. I did look, but couldn't find an answer to my specific question. I think I will probably end up buying a set of 2 half ropes.
What would you recommend Robert? Thank you Jonathan for your recomendation.

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:55 am

I've got two PMI Verglas half ropes that are awesome and seem to be quite hard wearing. My recommendation is to stay away from the Beal Joker, it's a great sport redpointing ropes, but too heavy for trad as a halfrope
Happy climbing
Nic

Marshall1
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Marshall1 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:56 am

.
Last edited by Marshall1 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:20 pm

Thank you. Nic where did you buy your ropes? I'm unfamiliar with the brand.

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Stefan Smeda
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby Stefan Smeda » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:08 pm

Nic got it from me Malc. I ordered 4 halfropes, 2 for me and 2 for him as a bundle.

My first sport rope was a PMI. I bought that sealed from a visiting american climber. I was impressed with its durability so I looked them up again when I bought halfropes. The only place in SA that I could find that brings in PMI ropes is Marce fire fighting in centurion (http://www.marce.co.za). Since their business is more geared towards selling fire fighting trucks rather than ropes to climbers you have to really explain exactly what you want and probably have a bit of back and forth to get the deal done. Then you also have to wait for shipping (around a month for me as I recall).

So ja, a bit of a mission, but I'm also really happy with my ropes.

PMI and beal have had a close relationship over the years. This from another site:

So I contacted PMI to ask what relation they had with Beal and go the following answer from Steve Hudson, President of Pigeon Mountain Industries.

"You asked:
Is PMI a sister company, use the same structure in building ropes, start with any of the same product or work with BEAL in any way?

Yes, PMI and Beal have had a relationship for close to twenty years. PMI has been making static kernmantle ropes since 1976 and was looking for a partner to help us with the development of a line of dynamic ropes. We partnered with Beal in 1990 for technical assistance for us and a door into the US market for them. That relationship has changed some through the years as our companies have grown and markets have changed but it still exists.

For our dynamic ropes, we use very similar construction and materials but our formula for yarn treatment and twisting and thus rope elongation has tended to be a little more stiff for the North American market. In addition other differences are the yarn colors and other little tweaks we have made here in Georgia and our choices of products to offer for the North American market.

Hope that helps.

Steve Hudson
President,
Pigeon Mountain Industries, Inc"

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henkg
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby henkg » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:59 pm

Evho what Nic said about the Beal Joker
You may still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not. Cat Stevens

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:31 am

Wow! Thanks Stefan for such a detailed response. Sounds like a serious mission. As I live in Cape Town I think I'll probably buy something at mountain mail order.

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mountainmailorder
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby mountainmailorder » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:22 pm

We have all the top European brands available in SA: Beal, Edelrid, Mammut, Roca. Enough of a selection for anyone. Between them that's about 10 different types of half ropes.
We don't get the USA brands (like PMI) because duty for ropes sourced in USA is a lot higher than from the EU (Edelrid, Mammut, Roca) or SADC (Beal).
So nobody imports BlueWater, Sterling, Maxim, or PMI from the USA.
- Robert

malcs
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Re: Buying a second rope for trad

Postby malcs » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:39 am

So I bit the financial bullet and walked out of City Rock with 2 lovely Beal Cobra 8.6mm ropes last night. I cant wait to try them.
Thanks again to everyone on this forum for your assistance.
See you all at the crag :afro:


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