I read the previous thread and flames with some interest. True, climbers who routinely climb in the mid to high 20’s are unable to grade routes below 21 with any sort of accuracy. The best measure (in my opinion) would be to ask a large enough sample of climbers for whom these grades are at or near their limit. This has prompted me to through my hat into the ring on this emotive subject.
Flame me all you want, what I’m sharing is my interpretation of statistical data from my old coaching files.

I reviewed each climber on the different routes as they worked through the grades from novice up to grade 24. Each climber’s file had their grades mapped out according to Dale Goddard’s performance pyramid. The factors I took into account included: number of tries before redpoint; ease of movement through crux sequences; current shape of the individual’s pyramid.

Number of climbers: 95
Period: 1995 to 2002 (7 years)
Height of climbers: 1.2m to 1.8m (average 1.65m)

Using the assumption that Mild Thing at Legoland is a grade 15, then the data indicates the following:
Legoland:
Life & Times of Mike Hunt is 1 grade easier; i.e. 14.
Not with new brim is 1 grade harder; i.e. 16.
Easy does it is 1 grade harder; i.e. 16.
Pipe dreams is 2 grades harder; i.e. 17.
Chocolate Speedway is 3 grades harder; i.e. 18.
Hey, come on is 1 grade harder than Speedway; i.e. 19.
Oh my goodness is the same as Hey, come on; i.e. 19.
Chaud Rochet (starts at Pipe dreams an ends at Speedway’s anchors) is the same as Speedway; i.e. 18.
Thimbles (Start as for Pipe dreams and go straight up the crack) is 2 grades easier than Mike hunt; i.e. 12.


Steeple:
Gospel express is 1 grade easier than Speedway; i.e. 17.
Quasimodo (Ed’s route on the left) is 1 grade harder than Gospel express (the crimps in the middle); i.e. 18.

Rest of Montagu
Then, using the assumption that Eddy of Bovidence is a 24 and Andy’s Route No1 is a 21, then the data indicates the following:


Reborn at Heaven is 1 grade easier than Route no1 at Far Side; i.e. 20.
Elephant hitmen at the Alley is 2 grades easier than Eddy of bovidence; i.e. 22.
Justice for all at Lost world is 2 grades easier than Eddy; i.e. 22.
Brandenberg gate at Berlin wall is 1 grade easier than Route no1 at Far Side; i.e. 20.

Everything is 2 grades harder after reading all those specs...\"Is this 17 or 15? Am I tied in...? AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH\" *Schplat!*

Seriously though, nice job. Iain can you explain Dale Goddard's performance pyramid maybe? Haven't heard of it before.

Ja please...I'd also like to know

Hi Iain

Your study of the climbers is intense. I still dont understand then how i on sighted Choclate Speedway 18 and then it took 3 attempts to send Gospel which is the 17? The Grading system between 15-22 is really so tight. For example. Bion Giorno Bambina (21) at Lego was easier for me than The Unforgiven (19) at Steeple?

Hi Hendrik and others,

Various factors could have affected your various performances. Speedway has a single move crux which you either stick or you don't. Gospel has 12 crux sequences, each requiring a different skill. Doing gospel has probably taught you new engrams to use on other routes.

As for the Unforgiven / Bongiorno dilema, you will probably be able to explain it by analysing the types of sequences in the rest of your pyramid and how they impacted on your engram database.

Numerous other factors impact on a ingle send by a single climber. These include heat, humidity, relative overtraining, fatigue, emotion, etc.

To Dyl & the Jimmy,
Explaining the pyramid is too complex for a forum post. Drop me a mail to \"personaltax at xsinet dot coza\" and I'll send you an example.

Yes, i totally agree with the gospel vs speedway thing!! Chocolate speedway only has one very hard crux move and the rest is relatively good, but gospel express is long with a lot of different technical movements where you have to remember what to do at each hard part... which is why it has 5 stars and speedway only 4... But the moves on gospel are do-able, you just have to figure them out and remember them... and when you do: an AWESOME 17 redpoint!! The crux move on chocolate speedway is hard, which is why it's a 18.

Thanks guys. I am understanding more now. Yes Gospel did become easier after i figured out what to do!

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What ever you do... don't look down...