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 Post subject: Bolts and Ankers?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:51 pm
Posts: 15
Hi. Is there a way to see when bolts are bad when you clip. Like a rule of thumb. Must the anker always be secure and tight against the rock or is it ok if the bolt is tight but the anker( where you clip the draw - is that the right word) is able to turn around.

What is the tell tell signs we must look out for?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 3032
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Hi Hendrik,

The answer is no, you cannot tell if a bolt is going to fail by looking at it.

Andy Davies wrote:
... I'm afraid all the bolts that have failed have had very healthy looking external threads so its impossible to inspect in-situ bolts. Checkout the pic of the failed bolt at the bottom of the ARF page on this website and you can see what I mean.


See also:
Rotten Bolts
Bolts at Kleinmond to be treated as suspect
Another Bolt Failure (at Kleinmond)
Anchor Replacement Fund (ARF)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:28 am
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Quote:
the anker( where you clip the draw - is that the right word)


It's \"ANCHOR\"

Things to look out for are rusted bolts. Also suspect bolts could have a rusted shaft but the nut is not. If the hangar is rusted, and the bolt not, this can also be suspect.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:47 pm 
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Hendrik, FYI You clip the draw through a HANGER. The chains/hangers at the top of the route form the ANCHOR


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:12 pm 
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If you're both going to be pedantic A$$HOLES about Hendrik's spelling mistakes, then I feel the need to point out that you don't always clip the QUICKDRAW through a HANGER. Some routes are not equipped with expansion bolts and HANGERS. This also holds for the TOP ANCHORS.


<wanders>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Arbitrary bs..... Anchor is a generic term for any pro placement.

No you cannot tell when a bolt is rotten or not. Rust streaks are often just from where the hanger rubs against the rock and may be just superficial surface corrosion. If the actual bolt stud is very rusty and there is deep staining of the rock around it, dont trust it! However a perfectly healthy (on the outside) bolt may also be cracked or have developed stress cracking from over tightening. Sobering thought!

If you come across a loose spinning hanger tighten the nut by hand at least, it will still hold a fall. For the super organised a #17 spanner is handy to fix loose nuts, just dont crank the nut too tight, be gentle (see stress cracking above).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:42 pm 
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Location: da Big Red baboon in magalies
Alternatively take up trad… All the gear is your own... no suspect anything, well perhaps the rock and your ability to use the stuff correctly :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:54 pm 
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Too true Fanta. Trad is the way forward.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 9:06 am
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Location: Cape Town
Trad is the way of the enlightened 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Guys.. I agree with you. But trad is more expensive firstly and i am not strong enough yet to be there on the rock. I would love to do trad in the future and tackle some Epic Du toits Kloof trips. But for now i will do the sport thing and get stronger. I have a big dream and that is to do a route on Table mountain. It looks so intense. But untill that day....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:58 pm 
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Hey Hendrik, dont delay getting into trad. Its a fallacy that you need to get stronger first before climbing trad. Theres tons of easy (like below 15) trad clissics out there. Hook up with the MCSA or other experienced climbers and follow them up some long routes for a while. Way better mental training than thrashing around on bolts. You wont need gear initially if you head out with the club.

Oddball, Hendrik asked if he was using the correct term. I corrected him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Location: Durban
Real Name: Russell Warren
Hi Hendrik

You can't get better advice than what Hector told you. There are amazing 15's on TM that you could lead on trad. If you are keen I might be in TM or Lion's Head this weekend if you want to join in. You could 2nd first before you lead to get a idea of what to do with the gear placements. If you have half a brain the rest is common sense. Trad rules!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
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Hendrik, just thought I'd mention that you are on the right track. While trad is in many ways a much more exhilarating exerience, a lot more experience is required than for sport, do not get pushed into a trad lead. You sound like you have your head screwed on right and I agree with the others you don't need much experience to follow on trad, and this is where you want to start. You'll know when the time is right to do your first lead - but just don't make it Exposure, trust me on this one :)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:30 am 
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Hector wrote:
Oddball, Hendrik asked if he was using the correct term. I corrected him.


Sorry Hector. Seemed to me like you were SHOUTING at him. My mistake.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:28 am
Posts: 16
Quote:
If you're both going to be pedantic A$$HOLES about Hendrik's spelling mistakes, then I feel the need to point out that you don't always clip the QUICKDRAW through a HANGER. Some routes are not equipped with expansion bolts and HANGERS. This also holds for the TOP ANCHORS.


Hey oOdball, so if you don't always clip a quickdraw to a hanger, then what do YOU do? Let me guess, at each clip point do you untie and thread the rope through the hanger?! Tool.

The rule is, whether it's an expansion bolt and hanger, a ring bolt, or whatever else it is, one uses a quickdraw to clip into the protection. Don't you be pedantic oOdball and confuse a beginner. We all should be clipping our quickdraws into the ANCHORS at the top too, with the exception of the last person to climb the route, who then should thread the rope through the ANCHORS and use an abseiling device to get down. This preserves the ANCHORS which might be ringbolts, chains etc. The exception to this would be cold shuts, which I have not seen in many years.

And oOdball, thanks for calling me an A$$HOLE. very mature. Check your belay loop mate.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Johnny_Knoxville wrote:
Hey oOdball, so if you don't always clip a quickdraw to a hanger, then what do YOU do? Let me guess, at each clip point do you untie and thread the rope through the hanger?! Tool.


*sigh* Yes dear :roll:

Johnny_Knoxville wrote:
The rule is, whether it's an expansion bolt and hanger, a ring bolt, or whatever else it is, one uses a quickdraw to clip into the protection. Don't you be pedantic oOdball and confuse a beginner.


I'm quite sure Hendrik (and others) won't get confused.

Johnny_Knoxville wrote:
And oOdball, thanks for calling me an A$$HOLE. very mature. Check your belay loop mate.


Indeed it is and it wasn't you for a change.

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