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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Incidents like this gives us a BAD name. Stormy, you shoulda had permission before you started.

One Dog, to answer your question, perhaps because it is private property?

I think the Snake Park has every right to deny us access. Pity, woulda been cool to check out new climbs in GP.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:39 pm 
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haha@GarethFrost :lol:

We have this thing on the interwebs called the 'read the whole thread and then whip out your flamethrower with confidence', perhaps if you did that you might have found all this out before wasting your time and keystrokes typing a response which shows the exact holier-than-thou thing that have made anti-MCSA people, well, anti-MCSA.

Nothing against MCSA climbers, but there are some definite smells of sarcasm there (and here :wink: )

If this crag was first bolted in 2005 (barring the existing 19 that was there), why has this become a problem right frikken now? Because stormtrooper altruistically used this forum to make his efforts public. Sadly, if he just kept his mouth shut, he would've still been climbing there with the few word-of-mouth friends that knew. The nature of people. :(


Last edited by nosmo on Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Hi everyone,

It has come to my attention that the land these climbs are on is OFF LIMITS to everyone. Anyone who had intended on going to climb here may not. The land is part of the snake park's reserve and may NOT be accessed

The routes were put up a number of years back, and since then nobody has been back there.

There are a number of reasons why the access issue was never thought about.

1- there are no fences and one can access the area directly from the street.
2 - many of us grew up climbing trad routes on this mountain.
3 - the mountain is the same one as the Chosspile, with this area only a few hundred meters from the upper crags that already exist there.
4 - the area was originally accessed from a walk off route from the Chosspile.
5 - there is a well worn trail that leads to the top of this cliff, which led me to believe that this area was being used for hiking.
6 - There are constantly tramps and vagrants living in these hills, making fires and littering, which led me to believe that people were freely accessing the land.

Climbers pose no threat and are eco conscious people who like to enjoy nature.

I would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused, and the climbs will be removed to prevent anyone from going to the area to climb.


Last edited by stormtrooper on Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:27 pm 
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pillick wrote:
One Dog, to answer your question, perhaps because it is private property?


I only see them calling it a reserve, which they seem to control - nothing about private property. Was just curious as to the actual reason - is it a case of trying to protect the environment, or just to keep strangers out?

Regardless a clear indication that the public is not allowed would have helped. Agreed on allowing but controlling access - win-win for everyone?

On the MCSA issue - let's just say I had similar negative experiences trying to contact them - tried get info to contribute to ARF (for Gauteng / Magalies), no response.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:21 am 
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OneDogClimbing wrote:
On the MCSA issue - let's just say I had similar negative experiences trying to contact them - tried get info to contribute to ARF (for Gauteng / Magalies), no response.


That's unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience. In my view it's a little unfair to expect professional level service from a voluntary organization when the people involved have busy lives just as you do.

Feel free to flame me all you want, I'm not making excuses, just stating the facts (I can take the flack, but think this through before you react!). The MCSA does loads of really good work (asking nothing in return!!) that benefits all climbers, not just members. I'm always amazed at how much actually does get done given the hectic demands of work and general 'getting on with life' issues on most peoples time (how many hours per day would you be prepared to devote?). It takes an unbelievable amount of work for the small minority of climbers who actually get involved and do something to meet everyone's expectations without disappointing some people along the way...

I'm not suggesting that the club is without fault (there are many areas where it falls down and needs to do better), all I'm saying is that you might give some thought as to what you expect and how you think those expectations can be met, given a realistic assessment of the 'business model'. For the MCSA to be more effective it requires a bigger pool of members from which to find those rare enthusiastic people who are prepared to give freely of their time to benefit each of us.

I'm always optimistic, but I suppose that I'm just a 'glass half full' kind of person :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:08 am 
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oOdball wrote:
In my view it's a little unfair to expect professional level service from a voluntary organization when the people involved have busy lives just as you do.


I don't expect "professional level" service, but a response, even if a month later would be nice.

I'm in the (tedious) process of joining, because I do believe in their cause and would like to contribute. I just hope to not be associated with the "holier than thou" attitiude displayed by some members, which seems to be the prevailing generalised impression of MCSA members by outsiders.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:38 am 
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Hey Dogstar

Good on you - get into the club and make a difference. I am also going to join.

I think the club does alot - do we not clip into bolts and hangers supplied mostly by the club at places like Boven and Montagu?

There is a certain fuddy duddy feeling that one gets from the MCSA though. I am sure that they'll agree that young blood is needed.

You can only change it if you are in it, right?

Also, on the point of getting no reply from the club, did you email or did you perhaps phone as well?

I have had good response wrt phoning....


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:52 am 
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I think we're highjacking this thread, but WTF, here goes:

Fair enough, I did not try phoning, I prefer email. If they post an email as a contact method, I'd expect it to be answered in some sort of timeframe with which the evolution of man and dinosaur can not be compared with. I've grown a grey hair since mailing them and still had no response (on more than one issue), but perhaps my girlfriend had more to do with the grey hair than the MCSA did :lol:

pillick wrote:
You can only change it if you are in it, right?

Agreed. I intend to start a "Girls in bikinis bouldering" league as my first act as an MCSA member. 8) :lol:
(unfortunately we'll not allow for any guys in Speedo's, there is just something very wrong with a Speedo, sorry )


Back to this topic though, is anyone, MCSA or not, going to try and negotiate with the Snakepark? I think the reaction from them was perhaps made in haste ( or indignation at what's been going on under their noses) and there might be room to manouver, or am I being overly optimistic?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:28 am 
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Grrr, Girls in Bikini's sounds fantastic :D :D :D

Also, not to hijack the thread any further, just remember that it isn't the MCSA's fault that this has become an access issue

For sure, someone should try and negotiate with the snake...

Win Win sounds good for everyone...


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