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 Post subject: Using The New Bolts
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:38 am 
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Just a question about the new bolts. Is it accepitible to ab of them if you get stuck half way up a route. Simply by putting the rope through the bolt and even the one bellow, that would be two points, which seems safe to me? It would mean that no down climbing would be needed. :D And yes i know i'm menat to get to the top but sometimes that doesnt happen :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:17 pm 
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Should be fine to abb off any bolts on a route but remember that you should never thread the rope directly through hangers but rather use bail biners. It is ok to thread the rope directly through U-bolts as there are no sharp edges. All other safety issues that apply to cleaning routes obviously still apply too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:22 pm 
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When you say the new bolts I assume you are referring to the Raumer type bolts:
Image
Yes, they're fine to ab off, but remember you don't want to be trusting a single bolt for any amount of time (here in SA)

In Europe single bolt lower off's seem to accepted (which I didn't particularly enjoy!)

Check out this article on Planetfear.com: Retreating Off a Sport Route (Abseil method)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Just to add to the \"Retreating off a sport route\" on the main page. You can do a similar trick with a fifi hook which makes retrieving the hook (as opposed to the sling) a bit more of a sure thing. Also, its best to lower a loop of rope and haul up another rope to abseil on. That way your belayer can keep you on belay while you abseil down. If the bolt/sling/fifi fails, at least you're still safe.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:08 pm 
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I cant comment on the bolts down south but I must say that of the 100s of expansion bolts I replaced in Boven, all have been in great shape, even the really old ones, I abb of them at the drop of a hat! Its only the drop-ins that are dodge, its important to be able to recognise them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:22 pm 
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Real Name: OneDog
a couple of questions:

Andrew: what's a drop-in? I have no clue what you're talking about and would like to avoid them :lol:

How much of those Raumer P bolts are left sticking out of the rock - i.e. roughly how far between the rock face & the start of the loop, and at what distance does it become risky wrt. it's strength?

Does anyone know if those expansion sleeves on the expansion bolts can be bought separately? I want to make an expansion P bolt, sell millions of them & retire early.

Fanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:42 pm 
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FYI: at present ARF is only active in the Western Cape (thats were most of the bolt failures occurred!)

Below is a pic of an Raumer bolt (the amount it sticks out will vary from bolt to bolt, but lowering off one would not be a problem)

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:07 pm 
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Thanks Justin

To set the tone: Due to a lack of hands-on experience I'm not 100% sure on how the bolts work, although it seems straight forward enough. I am actually quite seriously interested in trying to make an expansion P bolt as the cost may compare favorably with the standard bolt + hanger cost, and I quite simply like the idea. I'm quite aware of the ARF just operating in the Western Cape, but I'll still sell to them, just at 200% the price + some or other arbitrary \"extra-provincial-effort tax\" :lol:

My question regarding the acceptable length is based on having (in my mind at least) to be able to place a nut on the bolt in order to pull it out for the sleeve to expand. The further the loop is from the rock, the higher the strain / torque, so there must be some limit? I agree lowering off should as a rule not be a problem, but with the strain of a fall the picture might change?

I'd just like to find out if it's feasible or not - any help & info appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:26 pm 
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I had a moment of clarity - one does not need a nut to pull it out - just a \"bearing puller\" type thing. I'll patent the \"OneDog's P-Bolt Puller\" and make more millions.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:22 pm 
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With regards to the \"Retreating off a sport route\" system, I have a question that may affect some people...what if you're dumb enough to pull the wrong end of the rope? You'll be left with not only leaving a sling behind, but also your rope!
Another question? Assuming you pull the correct end of the rope, won't the two sling loops twist into and around each other? I haven't tried it, but I would imagine the sling to get twisted into itself, which would cause it to jam in the bolt when the ropes weight pulls down...and then again you leave your rope stuck at the top. Will the rope slide nicely through the sling and behave itself? Has anyone tested this or are there some ropes dangling in the wind somewhere?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:42 pm 
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\"Dumb one's die\" John Bachar (from the movie Masters of Stone #!?)

If the one end of the rope is stuck up top, simply tie into the other end and go fetch.
I had to do this last weekend :bounce:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:54 pm 
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True, but you still have to get down again. Are you going to try the sling thing again, or are you going to use the old system of leaving a sling or biner behind? You also forfeit the time needed to do the route again, which isn't always possible, although you would to save your rope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:15 pm 
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Sorry, I wasn't actually doing the abseil thing. My belayer (it was my wife ;) would not lower me to the ground... having just eaten half a packet of sour sweets :bounce: I decided to be smart and get down myself down (I was about 2m off the ground, hanging free).
I was clipped in with a biner, so I pulled myself up, unclipped the biner and dropped to the ground. In the mean time the rope (with figure of 8 knot) had shot up out of reach.

I'll let you know if I ever get round to the bolt abseil method

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