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 Post subject: How rad SA is
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 3:00 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Cape Town
If you guys are doubting what we have and think overseas is better then check out what clem thinks, and pics of his new area in rocklands www.nadventure.com for some fun check out the tessin clips 1 to see a bit of what went down in switzerland this spring.
SA is definatly one of the best places in the world to climb!!!!!
Tune in, drop out and rock on!!!


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 Post subject: balls
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:17 am 
we may have the rock to climb, but I'm sure one doesn't get raped and molested overseas. i don't think any people would have left SA had the crime issue not been so bad. When your wife and kid are held up at the local crag, then we'll see how patriotic you are. we do have awesome rock tho, no doubt.


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 Post subject: Ummmm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 am
Posts: 132
Location: Pretoria / Johannesburg
Real Name: Andrew Blanche
Ummmmm whih tree did you fall out off? Go ahead, make my day and name me a country that does not have crime? Hmm I thought so... Mars is a planet, but your right, it has not crime - it also has no humans (right now) - which explains a lot!

This is Africa, and if you play in the long grass the lions will catch you. That does not mean you must not play in the long grass - it just means you have to be carefull of the lions :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:56 pm 
What a load of trollop chalk, what the heck are you on dude? Long grass? Lions? Sounds like you smoked some of that grass. Or snorted a few lions? There are plenty of communities out there with little to no crime. No where else in the world have I seen almost daily headlines like; Vice principal molests pupils, or 3year old abused, raped and then murdered. Perhaps youve seen so many headlines like this that you have ceased to care? Being careful of lions may help you in the Kruger National Park, but hows it going to help you when you are held up by AK47 wielding thugs intent on killing you, taking all your possessions and 'having some fun' with your partner. Comments like yours simply reveal how callous, uncaring and unthinking people here have become.

Anyway enough depression, the rock here is boggling for sure, although more for bouldering than routes. A rail every three meters isnt exactly conducive to sustained climbing. But hey lets revel in the abundance of what we do have and explore the seemingly endless opportunities, just travel in large groups and watch your back!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:08 pm 
this is just a lame thing to say. i hope you don't get mugged and have to watch your girlfriend get raped.


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 Post subject: Armed and Dangerous
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:03 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Pretoria
The safety situation at the SA crags seem to be chaotic. The climb za site has several articles with regard to rape, mugging, theft, robbery etc-enough to scare off the bravest amongst us. What about going armed to crags? - just a question! - or is this a to extreme measure?

In a prevoius SA Mountain mag I read an article where it was mentioned that Roc n Rope in Boven supplies \"crag guards\". Is this service still available? No matter what the costs, I would definately like to make use of such a service if still available.

_________________
Jaco


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 Post subject: Armed and Dangerous
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:03 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Pretoria
The safety situation at the SA crags seem to be chaotic. The climb za site has several articles with regard to rape, mugging, theft, robbery etc-enough to scare off the bravest amongst us. What about going armed to crags? - just a question! - or is this a to extreme measure?

In a previous SA Mountain mag I read an article where it was mentioned that Roc n Rope in Boven supplies \"crag guards\". Is this service still available? No matter what the costs, I would definately like to make use of such a service.

_________________
Jaco


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 3:00 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Cape Town
Hey maybe you guys should move to the cape or just quit climbing then, coz your negativity will get you nowhere. Yes there is crime up north buts that how it is, bringing guns to the crag won´t change anything. At rocklands there is no problem we even leave our cars unlocked. Thats the quality of life that i desire not the negativity that you guys are displaying. South Africa is about to see the biggest influx of foreign climbers that it has ever seen over the next couple of years. Rocklands is about to explode, and all we do is just bitch and moan. We really have no idea what is on our doorstep.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:39 pm 
Yeah JuzH what you had intended as post in admiration of our rock has been shifted to reflect on some of the sickness in our society. But you're wrong asuming that all those above are Jozis or that Cape Town does not have the same level of crime as Joburg. The first 'guest' reply to Chalks outrageously unfeeling and unsympathetic post was me (Capetonian). Cars are broken into at the Mine, Peers Cave and Higgovale Quarry with monotonous regularity, hikers are regularly mugged on the slopes of TM, and its only a matter of time before those mugged are climbers.

I dont think expressing our sadness and outrage at such acts is being negative at all, if no-one speaks out against this rot it will just continue, and all of those foreign visitors will be naively unprepared for the level of security required to be safe in this country. I too long for the freedom you feel at Rocklands and wish to God that that same freedom existed in our cities and other populated areas. I too wish that I didnt have to lock my front door, or car door, ever. But my sentiments are definitely not just plain negativity, wistful sadness yes, anger yes, but not negativity.

Communities exist all over the world where crime is a virtual non-entity, why cant it be like that here? Im off to Cyprus soon where a bar fight will make headline news, where people leave their cars in the supermarket parking lot, unlocked, keys in the ignition with the engine running (to keep the aircon on and so keep the car cool!) with cameras, phones etc lying on the seats. There is no angst, no fear. Im happy for my daughter to wait on a street corner for her lift unattended. She can walk around the city with her friends at night in safety. Im rambling on because people here dont know what they are missing, they have become so hard and cold from never knowing that peace of mind. I too long for that freedom and peace Juz and wish it could be that way here.

Oh did I mention the miles of undeveloped limestone cliffs lining the Cyprus coast? or the zillions of untouched boulders hidden in the forested mountains? Im packing my drill and pad! See you in oudtshoorn when I get back, and Im definitely coming back, coz as you say SA is rad!!!


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 Post subject: Safety at the crag
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:53 pm 
You can't just brush this off. I don't care about my belongings. They can be replaced, but my climbing partner is female, and I don't know what I would do if something happened to her whilst we were out climbing. Going armed won't help. Recent attacks have involved guns, and if climbers react by taking guns to the crag it is only a matter of time before someone is shot. Climbers need to get together and visit the crags in large groups. Don't take valuables to the crag!! Maybe then these bastards will leave us alone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 3:00 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Cape Town
I hear you greg but all this bitching and moaning isn´t going to help. Its just negativity. Why not channel that enery and form something like PACACA (people against crime at climbing areas) and catch the guys. Take for example the mine it would be easy. Its obviously the same people commiting the crime so stake it out on the weekend with a couple of climbers maybe get huge to help (dion hugo) and catch the mo fo´s. That will do more that all the moaning combined. But my guess is that it will never happen so keep on whining guys.

SA is and will always be the best!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
JuzH for president! JuzH for president! Good idea, but you would have to approach that quite carefully. How's your finger Juz, I heard that when it snapped you could hear the echo through out Rocklands.


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 Post subject: irritations
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:46 am 
JuzH,your posts are just proof that great climbers need not have intelligence, as what oozes from your snapped fingertips is nothing but schmaltzy idealistic rubbish!

RSA has the same crap police force and army 'up north' as it does 'down south'. Lets not forget that german tourist who was raped and stabbed on TM, nor the many times I've been mugged in the cape hills, not to mention the 7th back car window I've purchased this year! Your idea PACACA idea is just that, it's KAKA! i pay my frikken taxes so that someone else better trained can covertly deal with the bush scum...not to mention, when the brave hero climbers end up at the cop station, the criminals will just get set free.It's the old SA crime debate again,yaaawwwwwwnn. negativity blah blah blah, lets hear you sing this tune after your girlfriend gets a new STD.

By the way, 'rad' should stand for 'retaliate and die'!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:16 am 
Dear annoyed et al, ideals are what the future is built upon! Bitching endlessly is never going to solve anything. I would even go so far as to suggest that a negative attitude simply attracts more negativity, If your vibe sucks then kak things are just going to continue to happen to you!

If you want to moan then write to the Parks management, Police forces, Municipalities and other people who are in a position to make a difference, dont try and dump your bad Karma at JuzH's doorstep, he is not the one you should be raging at! Besides JuzH is so cool and has such a positive attitude that the kak youre slinging aint ever going to stick!

So, everybody!, if you have ever been mugged, had your car broken into or even know someone who has then get proactive; write to the above mentioned authorities, write to the papers, the more of a stir you create the more chance there is that something wil be done about it! So enough pointless bitching, if you get hit by these muther-f---ers then report it here so people can be warned of potential dangerspots, but please, please spare us your anger and negativity, we are all in this together after all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:56 am 
That said!I'll still risk being raped and stabbed up in Rocklands whilst enjoying some amazing climbing aka Bouldering!!! The the risks might be perilous BUT the rewards will far surpass them!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :wink: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :x :cry: :lol: :( :) :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Kommetjie
Real Name: Michael Baleta
Yes the Landz is a very perfect place...
the worst that could happen to you is not wanting to leave>>
which forces me to mention a small contingent of South Af's who have been there for two months now. These guys have been flying our flag high and represting even though most of the traffic in the area is foreign.
(As JuzH mention, the landz is exploding)
But dont don't worry you can all keep complaining and we will keep climbing, getting stronger, representing and most of all appreciating our paradise of supreme rock in an area of unique tranquillity.

[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Safety at the crag
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 am
Posts: 132
Location: Pretoria / Johannesburg
Real Name: Andrew Blanche
Ooooo we are a touchy bunch aren’t we? I used the “lions and long grass” as a metaphor (for those who only got as far as the word “grass” – a metaphor is a figure of speech). If you know the crags are “crime ridden”, then go in groups, take your pet poodle with, hire a crag guard, in other words – if you are going to risky places – keep your eyes open and be prepared, and stop whining!

This will always be a problem, its as old as time. Lets face it, the average climber (lets call him a “have”) has spent more on his rack that the average “have-not”, wondering around, with nothing better to do, will ever earn in a life time of pulling weeds in your garden. And lets face it – despite all your high moral values and culture, if you are hungry and cold, you too will take a chance and mug someone who is walking around in a polartec jacket with a thermo of warm coffee and power food… the word “survival” comes to mind.

The local communities (who spawn thieves, rapists and what-nots) will only support the climbing community if they benefit from it personally (think $$$$, because free climbing lessons don’t feed little faces). In other words make it worth more their while to protect you or benefit from your presence than to mug you. Yes, it sounds like a pay off, and that’s exactly what it is.

A good example is the Bronkies crag (good) as opposed to Baviaanse Poort area (bad) – why because the local land owner is scoring R25 a car – on a weekend he can clear a good R400, not much to us, but to a rural family this is a sizable income – and from something that did not cost them anything in the first place.

Oh – and for those of us who believe that there are other places on this planet that don’t have crime, wake up, its everywhere. The only difference is - its in our faces.


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