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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am 
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Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Car Guard at Strubans Valley

The car park at Strubans valley has been plagued in the past with crime. Cars have been broken into or even stolen. The Johannesburg Section of the MCSA has taken action and employed a car guard. They secured the services of Nico. He will be present on the following days and times:

Between 1 September and 30 April (the summer months)
Friday 14h00 – 18h00
Saturday 09h00 – 18h00
Sunday 09h00 – 18h00
Public holidays 09h00 – 18h00

Between 1 May and 31 August (the winter months)
Friday 14h00 – 17h30
Saturday 09h00 – 17h30
Sunday 09h00 – 17h30
Public holidays 09h00 – 17h30

He is to be equipped with a remote with a link to Chubb security (also paid by the MCSA), with rapid armed response. He is also got a clipboard upon which all climbers will be asked to fill in their names. If anybody wants to be in the loop as to what is happening in the MCSA, they can put their email address as well. The MCSA is also giving him a small basic salary to cover his transport costs. Please support him, we are asking for R10 per car.

In a few days, you can log on to http://www.jhb.mcsa.org.za see his cell no (It will be posted here as well). He is willing to give the climbers on the spot info, such as weather, how crowded the place is, who else is there etc.
If you have any queries, please feel free to phone me on 083 669 3028.

Neil Margetts

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:57 am 
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Real Name: OneDog
Excellent! What a bargain, thanks for the effort Neil!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:39 am 
What an awesome idea, thanks guys. I like going to Strubens for a quick climb when I just can't get to the far away places but I always think at the back of my mind that I'm going to have to get back down to the car park and have to call a taxi... which would probably cost a lot more than R10 bucks.

Support.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
Well done Niel for taking the initiative and putting the idea into action. I wonder, though, if any MCSA members perceive this to be a lost opportunity to answer sceptics, such as myself, who tend to see the club as dominated by those with a yearning for the "good old days". I personally can list at least 20 great things that the MCSA does which has a direct positive impact on the sport that I'm so passionate about, yet the closest I came to joining was when the club bought the Superbowl area in Boven. Not withstanding the brilliant good work that some individuals within the club are doing (the type of work that I should be doing from "within the organisation" if I had the time to put into the development of others instead of focusing on my selfish persuits) I simply cannot see how the MCSA is embracing the changes that have taken place in SA over the past 17 years or so.
P.s. From the looks of Nico, and comparing him to other red-headed climbers that I know, I predict that he'll be cranking 30s within 3 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:29 pm 
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thanks a lot for this ..i recall starting a thread about 2 years ago asking if we should not have a guard posted there..im very glad that this has happened , the peace of mind will be much appreciated..

R10 is not too much to ask , is it per person or R10 per car ( even if there are 5 in a car ?)

great work and safe climbing ( and parking ) ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:09 pm 
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Real Name: Derek Marshall
"I simply cannot see how the MCSA is embracing the changes that have taken place in SA over the past 17 years or so."

What were you hoping to see?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
Do I need to spell it out? Afirmative Action in SA has not been working to the extent that the only people left to be employed as car guards are from minority groups.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Real Name: Derek Marshall
Ja, you do need to spell it out.

So the MCSA should have employed a peron who fits an afirmative profile?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Down in Cape Town most of the Car guards are from North Africa (very few locals)

In case this topic goes MCSA direction :arrow:

Just in case anyone wants to discuss MCSA related matters, might as well carry on the past topics:
MCSA - Likes / dislikes & what you would change
&
MCSA thread-jack

Try and keep it constructive (its easy to be critical)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
My constructive suggestion would be that the MCSA looks at employing unemployed SAs of colour from the region. I don't think that affirmative action is even called for. In fact, it was probably practised in reverse as there can't be a shortage of suitably qualified people of colour for the job. For me, employing Nico reinforced certain stereotypes that I have of the MCSA. I know that Neil is probably pulling his hair out at the moment claiming that no matter how hard one tries, there is never a shortage of those who are critical. The truth is that Neil is probably the most active member to have ever served on an MCSA committee - certainly since I have been around. Events such as the RR trip would never have occured without his enthusiastic energy. And, again, I am both aware of and appreciate all that the club does for climbing as a sport. However, I do believe that the over-riding culture within the organisation is one that belongs 20-30 years ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:15 am 
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Real Name: Derek Marshall
So you are saying that this is a job suitable for a person of colour. Maybe they have other opertunities & are not intrested. Maybe viewing car guarding as a suitable aspiration for a person of colour is one that belongs 20-30 years ago.

MCSA is large. Several sections & hundreds of members, scattered over SA. Difficult to know them all. Difficult to view each of their lives. How would one plot the culture objectivly?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am 
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I must go with Danny on this one , all good intentions from the MCSA but still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth , i personaly have never felt the need to join the MCSA or rather felt totaly comfotable with most of the members. Maybe its just me and my lack of social skills , but i always felt like an outsider looking in.

Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:10 am 
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Location: Le Cap
Oh I see Danny, so its not acceptable for whites to have top jobs, and its not acceptable for them to have jobs as car guards either...
You can't paint yourself black and be more acceptable - and neither can he.
When you can take a look at this guy and not even be concerned what colour he is (besides the hair maybe) then progress has been made. Maybe you are the one who is stuck in the old days.
This is such a positive thing for a plagued area - and you bring it down with your whining. I recall being in a car to Boven with you many years ago and you were whining then - so that has not changed.
I've read your first post a couple of times now and its so all-over-the-place that I'm convinced all those years around shoe glue have fried your brain. :drunken:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:24 am 
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Danny Pinkas, any respect I might have had for you over the years, I have just completely lost. What an ignorant, racist comment you have made. I thought we were South Africans first and foremost. It's mentalities like this that have destroyed our country, your pseudo liberal hogwash. I agree, I think all the glue has addled your brain.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IF HE'S BLACK, WHITE, GREEN OR YELLOW????? He's a person. You are a sad, sorry little man danny. Ever since I have met you, you have been a perpetual whiner. Every crag I have ever seen you at, there has been your bloody whinging, carrying on etc. Get a life man. It's pathetic. Can't you see that BEE & AA is what is destroying our country? It is a racist policy. It divides the citizens. People should be judged on merit, not skin colour. THAT is what a rainbow nation is. I say if this guy does a good job, he should get to keep the job.

AND, what makes you think the MCSA would want to have you in their club in any case? I doubt people would vouch for you, and who would honestly want to have a whiny person like you hanging out at all the meets? Trust me, you are doing the MCSA a favour.

Why cant people just move on, try to forget about the past and stop living in it.

Oh and now I suppose SNORT will have to add his opinion on etiquette here.

Pathetic, all of you.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:38 am 
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KFC wrote:
Danny Pinkas, any respect I might have had for you over the years, I have just completely lost.

<snip hastily typed and emotional rant>


This kind of anonymous personal attack really isn't cool...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:51 am 
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Real Name: OneDog
agreed.

There are many other places on the interwebs to go be a ass if you absolutely positvely have to. Find them, make your anonymous insults there - it'll be fun, promise.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:57 am 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
@Derek
I agree with you 100%. Hopefully no one in the MCSA holds the view that car guarding is suitable for people of colour. The unfortunate reality is that there are many people of colour who are suitably qualified to be car guards. Employing one of them would have been easier than employing Nico, a nice gesture, and would have gone a long way towards addressing some of the perceptions that people such as myself hold.
@Grrr,
Apologies about the first post – it is pretty unclear but I do find it difficult to write about things that I feel strongly about and that I know will lead to personal attacks by some outstanding members of the community. You are probably not the only one who considers me a whiner. Do you have a term for someone who launches personal attacks under the guise of a pseudonym?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:50 am 
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Thanks Neill for organising this. My wife and I have been held up at gunpoint at the crag, and I don't recommend it. The important point is that this venue now has a security guard.

In South Africa discrimination on the basis of skin colour is illegal. I would hope that now and again needy and willing white people get jobs too.

I think that to bring this type of socio-political issue into a thread of this type on the forum is inviting a lot of inconclusive debate and serves no real purpose but to draw attention to the writer.

Danny I don't agree with your politics. I do however think that you would achieve more if you actually joined the MCSA and started actively working for the changes you want.

Pat


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Real Name: Derek Marshall
Hi Danny, I find your perception of MCSA so intresting, because it seems to be the exact oposite of mine. I base my perception on what I see as a current member. People from all ages & walks of life. Majority educated liberal, hippy types. Lots of whining at AGMs, Com meetings...goes with out saying. But good solid folkes who do stuff. Stuff they want to do, with out payment Mostly good stuff.

There is stuff they do which hacks me off like: They blocked my request for R30gs of bolting hardware...totaly unfair!

Why see only the bad spot on a good apple?

In our section of the MCSA, you know ...maybe 5 members, thats 2%. Lots of weirdos. Hard to put them in a box. Hard to generalize. & we are a small section.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
Derek, the problem down there is that you don't have someone like Niel on your side. He would have doubled your request and still got an approval. Almost all activities that happen here are because of his initiative. While people such as myself are writing, he is out doing. Like Pat said, the most improtant thing is that there is a guard. What I struggle to come to terms with is the effort it must have taken to find a white guard to protect white people's cars (99%) in an elite (read white) sport on behalf of an organisation that is 99% white. Having met a couple of you guys, yourself included, I can confirm that, indeed, you are a weird bunch - hopefully you'll always stay the same :thumleft:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:29 pm 
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If discrimination on the basis of skin colour is illegal in South African then why does South Africa have affirmitive action as affirmitive action is racism, you give someone a job because of their skin colour and deny someone else a job on the basis simply that they are the wrong colour.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Real Name: Grant Marinus
oooiii Drifter, had never thought my work would get mixed up with my sport but here is some employment law 101 for you.

Our Employment Equity Act makes specific provision for affirmative action. In respect of unfair discrimination it says that:-

It is not unfair discrimination to take affirmative action measures consistent with the purposes of the Act

and

Every designated employer must, in order to achieve employment equity, implement affirmative action measures for people from designated groups.

Now, i doubt that the MCSA is a designated employer because that would mean it must employ more then 50 people or have an annual turnover of R5 million.

Hope that answers your question in a nutshell.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Do we really need an argument about racism in this thread? Whilst I was also surprised the guard was white, and take Danny's points about the MCSA's past, at least here they have addressed the vital problem of protecting their members and other crag users. Great work.

One of the guys I was in school with (and yes it was an all white school - it was the 1980's) has ended up as a car guard at the shopping center across the road from the school. Hell, Ive just been laid off work, in these times who knows maybe I'll be the next car guard at Peers Cave (heaven forbid) degree and all. I'll break out the brown shoe polish just to keep everyone happy! :wink: . @KFC go get yourself a rounder or something, irritability usually stems from hunger.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Real Name: Neil Margetts
Hi Guys

Just like to fill in some history on the selection of Nico. Our first choice was another non white gentleman from PE, (funny coincidence as Marchall1 is from this area). He had car guarded there before, and has some security experience. The chairman and I arranged to meet him there one Fri afternoon to interview him. I reminded him on the Thursday. We waited there and he did not pitch. Phoned him and got a story about he was still at work. (he already has a week day job) Then tried another non white guy who had no job, but he said there was no taxis on a Sun. I contacted a church in the area and they recommended Nico. He has been trying to get a job for the past 4 years. He lives with his family and others in a small flat in very poor part of Newlands JHB. He walks for about 40 min, catches 2 taxis, and walks up from the Spar. The first weekend we had him on trial, it rained the entire Friday and Saturday. He did not budge from his post despite there being not a car in sight. It cleared up a bit Sunday pm and he got 2 cars. He sat in between the 2 cars.

Not sure how you read this but I think so far we have the correct guy. I think the MCSA needs to address the white only perception. We from JHB section, with the main drive of Diane our youth co-ordinator are running a number of programs in non white areas.

We would gladly welcome your input. We are willing to work in change, but it is the "how" we lack.

Neil


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:14 am 
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Thanks for the information GBM. I am aware of the fact that a business need to employ 50 people or more or have an annual turnover of R5million rand before they are forced to implement Affirmitive Action policy.

I know of a business that employes 45 people, has the business to grow and employ more people, but won't because they resent the fact that the government will be able to tell them who they must hire. They don't have a problem with hiring black people, they have a problem with the government trying to tell them how they should run their business. It is the principle.

Affirmative action doesn't tackle unemployment; more jobs need to be created for all. In most cases I don’t think affirmative action benefit those who need it the most. An example would be a black person today who went to a private school and had privilege upbringing, why must they get an unfair advantage in the work place. They don’t need a hand up.

Affirmitive Action is a racial policy which I think has created more division.


Last edited by Drifter on Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Good to hear there is a car guard for strubens, good work Neil, keep up the good work. It's a pitty the racial issue is still such a sensitive subject. I understand the grievances regarding BEE but am of the opinion the forward company's thinking only see it as a challange. Unfortunately there is still a lot of companies/organisations which are completely white from top to bottom exept the gardener and the cleaner. They will never employ people of color unless they are forced. Not all people of color have their job because of their skin color, some are actually good at their job. And manny of the colored south africans are the first of their family to actually graduate from a uni or technikon etc. They don't have parents to guide them during their careers and have to find out by trail and error.

Cheers,

Willem

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:42 pm 
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Hi Danny, as Patrick mentioned, he & I have been held at gunpoint at the crag (Boven), as have many others. As this is now your permanent stomping ground, I trust that you will be practising what you preach and put some social responsibility into the improvement of the community with some BEE initiatives?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 am 
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Hiring an unemployed white person also helps society, as this person will have money as well to spend in society. As long as a person spends money it helps society, regardless if the person is a black, white, indian ,coloured South African or a foreign national.

Ultimately it is not the South African Mountain Club's responsibility to do something about unemployment in South Africa, it is the South African government’s responsibility, just as it is not the Mountain Club’s responsibility to do something about security on the mountains, it’s the government’s responsibility. I heard when the Cape Town section of the Mountain Club complained to the safety and Security Minster about the muggings on the mountain that he turned around and said, “What is the Mountain Club doing about it”, using this logic that would be like a runners on the street of London getting mugged ,their running club complaining about it to their Minister of Police and he/she turning around and saying what is the running club doing about it, as if a private social club is responsible for the country's safety and security.

I hear that the Cape Town Section Mountain Club has an Outreach Program and are involved in Rescue, they are looking for more volunteers. You can find out information on their website about these activities. http://cap.mcsa.org.za/


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:54 am 
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Real Name: Neil Margetts
Hi Guys

Just an update on Strubans. The amount of cars has doubled, this is great to see that Nico's services are been used. Here is his cell no: 084 470 1521. He has no prob if you want to contact him to ask him if it’s raining, how busy is the place, who else is there etc.

Thanks again for your support.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Real Name: Lennie
I took a small sabbatical from climbing and now that my older son is of climbing age would like to introduce him to this great sport.

I see that there has been much discussion back and forth about the car guard at Strubens Valley. Is he still there and is the price still R 10 per car?

Thanks


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