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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:17 am 
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
I love this stuff. It's amazing how seriously some people take what i say. But that's OK. Can't lose on this one.

If I am right on the one hand its good business for me and Francie, the Chiro's and the biokentisists.

If I am wrong, then it means even X-Mod will get off his butt and do some actual climbing!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:33 am 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
Colin " The Eagle Tamer", Stewart "The Body" and all other denialists, there is no need to deny that as you get older it becomes more difficult to crank those hard lines. No better authority than Snort "The Knife" to point this out. Instead of fooling yourselves it would be more benificial if you gave me and the other kids on this forum some tips on how to sport climb while ageing gracefully.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:04 am 
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Location: somerset-west
Real Name: phlip olivier
I find the tips on warming up sufficiently, cross training and listening to the body to be very helpful. It is also good to know that there is no rush (me still being young and all). I started climbing post 20s and it is inspirational (to say the least) to see some people pushing their limits at post 40/50 years of age. This means I've got a good 20 years to go still!!!
:thumleft:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:25 am 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Much longer than twenty years, Maurizzio 'Manolo' Zanolla will be sixty soon and cranks 8c+/9a admittedly on thin less steep terrain. The examples of people going strong till a ripe old age are numerous. For sure Danny it gets harder and recovery takes longer but its worth the effort! Go for it guys!
And Snort you will see me on rock again, just not on TM quite yet as I need to find my bottle again (lost somewhere in the bushes, if anyone finds it please send it to me!). After a two year break my body is still in reasonably decent shape but my head has gone walkabout!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:40 am 
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I'd actually love to learn some proper "climbing specific" warm up routines!

:alien:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:13 am 
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Danny my Son :) If I were in denial, it would mean that I am in fact finding it difficult to crank harder but am just refusing to believe it. The truth is I am not finding it harder and don't believe that statement at all.

In terms of advice on how to achieve it: hmmmmmm A lot has already been said in this blog...but believing you can and ignoring popular thought to the contrary is the 1st step. I have also found that preparing and maintaining a good platform for performance is essential... Thus maintaining a diet that makes the body receptive to the harsh forces of training is the 2nd step. When you are eating right, the body responds significantly better and gains in general fitness, strength, endurance etc. and even mental well being are evident.

Thirdly I have always followed the old basic formula of the Interval training cycle published by Goddard and the boys back in the 80's in their book Performance Rock Climbing. All training methods since then stem from this.. its simple, it works and leads to less injuries and quicker gains in all round performance. I.E Endurance, Local Endurance, Power, Power Endurance.. You train all the energy generating methods the body has to offer that covers all the type of climbs we find ourselves on.

What I have found that is counter productive is to train to hard on plastic... This leads to injuries before you know it as you are generally in a group of mates and the testosterone lies think in the air. Always stop a training session while you are ahead.. This means you will recover quicker.. "One last problem to blow me completely" is asking for trouble. Never stay to long on one type of training. Becoming a beast on the bouldering wall, while impressive, wont get you up a 30m endurance route at Boven for example. Basically I have found that keeping the training cycle going from a young age until now has helped with keeping the body in a generally better climbing condition that just hap hazard random training in gyms non specific to climbing. I have also found that cross training like running while training endurance helps significantly as well...... Bottom line....if you cant climb often enough at the crags...training in between is crucial if significant gains are to be made.... Stuboy can provide far more advice on that.

In a nutshell no matter what your age, with correct eating, training and a good mental attitude.... gains in performance WILL be made while remaining physically healthy at the same time... How much gain is up to you. I will be very surprised if you find you have reached a limit. !!!

Enough said .... :thumright


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:33 am 
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Real Name: Danny Pinkas
Colin, that imput is really constructive. Thank you! Do you think that us mortals, who have not served in the marines, can master such discipline? Is moving to live in Boven an easier alternative to all of that? Hats off!!!

XMod wrote:
Much longer than twenty years, Maurizzio 'Manolo' Zanolla will be sixty soon and cranks 8c+/9a admittedly on thin less steep terrain. The examples of people going strong till a ripe old age are numerous. For sure Danny it gets harder and recovery takes longer but its worth the effort! Go for it guys!


Gee, Greg, you make it sound really good. Maybe being an older climber isn't so bad. If Stewart, Colin, Roger etc. can climb 30s at over 40, I'm sure I'll be able to do 26s when I get there in about 15 years time.

Re Manolo, I spent a day climbing with him in 2004. He was in Kalymnos, and needed a partner for the day so he asked a good Italian friend of ours, Chiara, to join him. Her initial delight (Italians really consider him a God) was soon replaced by dread of spending the day alone with this known serial womaniser, so she convinced me to come along (see pic). Does anyone know if it is safe to leave women alone with Stewart and Colin?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Location: JHB
I can't comment on Stu, but I would keep a close eye on your women and daughters around Crabtree.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Real Name: Douw Steyn
I remember my first day climbing in Kalymnos. Two Brits walked past us down the hill and I overheard one of them saying to the other:

"I know I'm 62 but that 7b+ felt a bit harder than I expected."


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
See? Even old Manolo can still get it up!.....er get up it.....um er never mind! c y'all at the crags/gym.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:05 pm 
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At 43yrs old I guess I am the baby of this thread but here is my advice on pushing ones limits as you get older....

Time on the rock: The most important (and difficuly to attain) point first. Our satisfaction in climbing stems from a) reaching ones goals while b) simply enjoying the time away from our busy lives to persue our passion - climbing up rocks with like minded mates. Squeezing in as much climbing time as is possible achieves both. Time on a project will train you specifically for its technical, mental and physical demands with the added benefit of allowing the process that refines movement to develope - ultimately leading to a successful redpoint.

2) Caution and Rest: I climb one day on, two days off then one day on and three off. A hard day on the rock forces you to rest tired muscles and wait for skin to recover. Both these problems have an added (hidden) advantage of keeping you out the the gymn and away from what I believe is the greatest risks of injury - plastic, impatience and peer group gym sessions. Lots of down time also allows one to fit in family and that thing called a career. I once asked Todd Skinner which one thing most influences our ability to to improve. He thought for a moment, smiled, waved his finger at me and said "Avoid injury at all costs!" Like Colin I am always watching my internal rev counter, red-lining is for the young and the indestructible.

3) Volume: I have certainly noticed that arthritic joints complain bitterly if I push up the milage so I have learnt to be content with less action on a climbing day. I stop when I am notice I am getting tired and my performance is flagging(unless trapped halfway up Milner!). I avoid thrashing burns for "training" at the end of a hard day.

4) Motivation: You gotta have desire! I choose my routes carefully and play to my strengths. I try to stay away from super bouldery sequences that generate high stresses. Longer routes that require skill and trickery are better value, Opening new lines really hold my attention. Fortunately we have a huge new crag (Umgeni Valley) minutes from my home. This really gets me out of bed in the morning....

I am almost climbing as well as I was 20 years ago. I recently I managed my hardest ever onsight. I still believe I can improve and this also motivates. The writing is on the wall though and I accept that I will be unable maintain this level of performance indefinitely. Ultimately though I agree with Snort, that my Goldern Years will see more trad climbing. It cetainly give you as much satisfaction at significantly less physical cost (as long as your gear holds) - but I am just ready yet....


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Roger, You mentioned your joints complain when you push the volume. I and a few other climbers I know use a product widely used overseas by climbers called MSM. A product you and Snort as doctors are probably quite familiar with.

I find it really helps with recovery time of joints and tendons after a training session or after a tough days climbing. I take it every day.

The one I use can be bought at any Dischem its called MSM-Body and in powder form (Smells really fowl). I just pop it in my coffee. The brand name is "The Real Thing" www.therealthing.co.za


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:24 am 
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Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
Of the 40+ crankers, how many of you climb with your wives/spouses? Is dodging or including the wives/spouses part of the crux? This is a topic on its own. How do you make it work?

My wife makes a great excuse. Locals: please don't acsept this great excuse from me, when I use it.

Are there any older women climbers in SA?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:23 am 
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"My wife makes a great excuse. Locals: please don't acsept this great excuse from me, when I use it."
Made a note of that one :afro: ...of course it cannot help me either at the moment.But I have to get it noted though in The Great Book of Excuses For Not Climbing/Not Climbing At Your Best :thumleft:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:52 am 
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There we go, Colin and Roger putting it all in a nut shell, nice one guys. What they have said and what I say in my articles (just about the same stuff, it's not rocket science) is all there is to it. The big word is Passion and following what makes you tick.

As for my wife/climbing partner. We have been on this fantastic climbing journey for quite some time now and share each others passion. Regula, my wife cranks hard too and turns 46 this year. She is close to getting Neanderthal Rex 27 (one rest) linked all the moves on Digital Bitch 26, hikes Thruster 26 and is working Whoa She Poopie 30. She does no training at all and climbs only for a half day Tuesday and Sunday. As for me I train on Thursday, thats pizza night and climb half day Tuesday and Sunday, not a whole load. We have a 24/7 business and two children with loads of home work. Jonathan 8 is working Wax My Gun 21 and Chocolate Speed Way 18 and Arendsig 18. Life is all about choices.

One thing I would like to mention is that Roger has climbed 33 and can grasp back on those engrams. The great news is I feel I am still getting stronger and better at 46, I have never climbed 32 and that is my goal, yes ten years ago it was 30, but one's passion will never rest if you don't allow it to. The second thing is, the grades are not what it is all about, I find huge pleasure in pushing my own personal standards from the one up to the next. If I start comparing myself and what I can or can't do then my ego will take a hammering and the towel will be thrown in.

SO!!! leave the grade and just get out of the box and feel that energy when you are in way over your head and things start to come together, that is what I am in search of. Keep cranking.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:28 am 
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Location: JHB
And the Crabtree just got another year older.

:thumright Happy, happy old fella :thumleft:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Thanks for the very contructive advice guys. Very motivating.
Stuboy, you said that you never track. Why? I thought tracking helped with footwork


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Hector wrote:
I thought tracking helped with footwork

Not necessarily. Tracking forces you to put your feet on grips in specific places (usually where your sweaty hands have been). It can help to teach you quick and accurate foot placement in some cases, but mostly forces you into more powerful contorted positions than you would normally experience on a rock climb (tm). You learn nothing about genuinely sneaky (good) footwork e.g. using that tiny edge or smear that helps you make less powerful *upward* progress instead of standing on the jug just because it's big.

I think that Stu was mostly worried about the injury causing potential of forced awkward foot placements..

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Tracking on plastic is the only place you will ever use tracking! Full stop.

I bounced this question of one of the planetfear instructors and got the same answer I will give you. Sure you can track once in a while to make a problem harder, but I do not recommend it to be done always.

The first rule in climbing is to position your feet in such a way that your centre of gravity is over one of them or spread between them, and in order to feel this sense of "balance" one should try different positions for the feet until the balance is found (usually the left hand right foot combination is recommended, read article). If you train yourself to be climbing in balance you will climb harder and with more style, comfort and enjoyment. You teach your engrams what you want, and they will seek it and try to reproduce it every time. If the automatic, engram program is not so finely tuned the tendency will be to overpower with the fingers, arms, shoulders and body tension in order to correct the out of balance feeling. This is one of the reasons many beginners feel uncomfortable when clipping or very often on the whole route, snatching, barn-dooring and so on until they fall or clip the chains totally pumped and glad it is all over.

Normally climbing on plastic is for training or fun, so why trash yourself training or have your ego smashed to bits because you can't do the tracking problem. I would like to know how many beginners have been put off bouldering because of tracking, it certainly does not inspire me at all. I place my feet where ever I like, just like on the rock. That way I teach my body what is expected and it is reproduced on the rock, the same way a kata would work in karate, you wouldn't practice one thing and then expect something totally different to happen when automation is required????

That is why I do not track. But that is just my opinion with reasoning.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:17 pm 
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i'm actually glad this topic was broached...

i agree mostly with stu on that, especially when talking about beginner stuff, but what about bouldering, on stone, when climbing 7b and harder. almost always, in the few times that i've done hard bouldering outside, the only way to do some of those sick moves is when you track...isn't it?

would love to hear marijus' opinion, or any of you boulder gurus opinion on this...

8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Occasionally you may match foot to hand in a mantle type move, but hardly ever, more often there is enough friction on the rock to place ur foot in a more comfortable and usefull position.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:29 am 
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Tracking is unrealistic in many instances. But so is placing your feet anywhere. What about choosing little foot chips?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:01 am 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Tracking problems on artificial walls has to be the most contrived type of climbing Ive ever encountered. It has very little, if any carry over to real rock and, as Stuart points out, places you at increased risk of injury. Small 'chips' or footgrips that force you to place your feet accurately and precisely will do far more to improve your climbing. Fill in all the gaps on your bouldering wall with these tiny holds, this will create a situation that is closer to rock climbing. Often hard climbing involves multiple foot moves for each hand movement, as Stuart says, find positions where you are balanced and the forces are equalised, then make a hand movement, the effort (and strain) involved is far less. If there is no foothold try simply smearing on the blank wall.

While just being a gym climber is ok if thats what u like, I would still urge people to get out on the rock, much nicer being outdoors and the climbing has a natural flow to it that plastic seldom has. There are very few route setters that can create indoor problems with this flow.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Thanks people. Useful stuff. I'll get cracking with desperate smeary grips for my wall. Anyone got tips on the best way to make these? Or are screw-ons from Gecko the way to go.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:28 pm 
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The cheapest way is to get off cuts from a wood shop and you can sand them down as you require. All you need to buy then is some capscrews. Wood has less friction than plastic grips so makes them trickier to stick and use.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
You can make 'friction patches' by buying some griptape from a skateboarding shop and sticking patches of that to the wall. Try not to skin your knees on the tape when u fall, its MEAN!
The cheapest way to make 'chips' is ljust to use ittle bits of wood. These u can simply screw straight into the plywood (cheaper than capscrew t-nut combo). If u are creative carve the wood so that the best part of the hold is not the top but a little protrusion on the face of the wood, this really forces you to focus on foot placement.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:39 pm 
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Real Name: Greg Hart
Just to take this back to the topic, codgers who crank; Check out 8aNu's discussions 'World Class climbers 20+ years' and 'The unknown double world champion'. A lot of the champions from yesteryear (the heroes of my youth) are still blitzing 8's every weekend. Old climbers never die, they just get better!!


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