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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Take a chill pill marshall! Its attitudes like yours that put me (and others) off! -baby cry room WTF is that?? A building expresses a lot about the people or organisation it holds.
If your attitude is indicative of the clubs stance (and it appears to be judging by similar responses from other club members over the years) you can stay in your dingy cave. Im quite happy with Virgin Active and Rocklands.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 721
Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
Throw a stone into a pond expect a ripple.

Who do you think you are telling a bunch of volunteers what to do with their free time? Diffrent if they were employed & you were a paying customer. Or if they were paid with tax money.

My appologies for being honest with you Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:01 am
Posts: 139
Location: Crab Nebula
Marshall1 wrote:
Greg, with respect,

<snip...>

Focus on the good.

I'd like to expand that slightly.

Focus on the good and please step up to take constructive action for the areas that need change/work. You will be most welcome.

Whining just puts off all the nice folks like Marshall1 <insert many hard working MCSA members here> who spend a fair portion of their personal time (Virgin Active, Rocklands, Family and friends anyone?) to try and do something positive for the climbing community.

I know that I also find it very difficult not to react with irritation in the face of ill informed criticism.

_________________
You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 721
Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
A building expresses a lot about the people or organisation it holds.

Yes, they are spending their money on/in the hills, outside...rather than waste it on renovations. It is folly to think you can judge 3000+ free(not slaves) MCSA people , in +-10 sections.... by a building. How many do you know? These are individuals who will not fit in your boxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Wot boxes?? I think you need to read peoples posts properly before spewing a bunch of reactionary BS. If you'd bothered to read mine you would've seen that I am full of praise for the Rock and Road initiative. This discussion (side discussion actually) centers around whether the MCSA appeals to younger climbers and whether the money spent on mountaineering expeditions could not be better invested. My suggestions are just that, some arble on the internet, about how I think they could appeal to the new generation.

If the MCSA is so individualistic why do they mostly only support mountaineering and not the other aspects of the sport? My suggestion that they may play a vital role in uniting the factions locally in no way suggests that they are responsible for the schism developing in the first place, although I am saying they could do a whole lot more to stay in touch with direction the sport is moving in, hence appeal to more younger climbers and therefore not be suffering from a lack of new blood. (Do you get it now?) If they have no interest in doing the above, as it appears from the outside, why are they circulating a survey to determine whether they should be representative of all climbing in SA??

Anyway wotever, my dealings with the club and certain individuals in it has long since led to a decision on my part to stay out of it, so they can go ahead and do whatever they want (they will anyway) they must just stop bleeting about a lack of young members, we wont miss them when theyre gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 882
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Cool it guys. This ain't necessary. The MCSA is a group of volunteers but the problem then is that it is also not a democracy and personality drives the direction of the club. As a volunteer nobody can tell you what to do and other than "common law" you do not have to account to anyone for anything.

The survival of all organizations is dependent on new ideas and new people and modernization. If this does not occur then the organization will fade away. In CT the club has 20 members under the age of 25 and that's really bad news. This volunteer has initiated the Du Toit's Rock Rally. This will fail unless young people buy in, get involved and run with it in the years to come. It is an experiment. And let me tell you, as a volunteer I haven't got the time to hard sell this thing or carry forward next year and the year thereafter. I have used all my time and energy getting CityROCK viable after 5 years and if it wasn't for my partner Robert it would be dead and buried. Now with CityROCK resources and experience there is some backing to my efforts but I am wearing my MCSA volunteer hat here and the MCSA must own this.

Us older guys have got resources and contacts and can get the commercial players coughing up some to help. But they are watching from the side lines and no big cheque which is needed is going to be written unless there is sustainable buy in from the climbing community no matter how much time and effort the MCSA volunteers put in. These events cost real money too!

So let's all get on the same side here and make things happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 721
Location: Port Elizabeth
Real Name: Derek Marshall
let's all get on the same side here and make things happen...Yes!

Greg, MCSA is a true mixed bag of people. Our tiny section is made of climbers(trad, sport,boulder,ice), walkers, rescuers, cavers & 4x4ers. from all walks of life. MCSA is by no means perfect. But as a volunteer organization every small achievement is something to be happy about.

As a climber I get on with what I want to do. The younger generation will find us at our best when we are out, getting on with what we want to do.

Club for me is hobby & social. Defending club is sport. Climbing is lifestyle. I climb because I like all the aspects of whole thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Yip I think the heat of the day drove us a little mad back there, thank goodness for the coolth of evening! Respect to both you guys for the efforts you have and are putting in. Marshall sorry I havent found my way up there to help blot things, this recession has left me scratching! Charles I will obviously help out with the Du Toits jol where I can.

I think my reservations with the club have a lot to do with personality clashes I have with certain people (hell I'd probably clash with anybody!) so dont let me put anyone else off joining! Weather looks like it may cool a bit by the weekend, hope we can get some climbing in. After my (non)performance last weekend I could do with the practice!


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 Post subject: Re: Why do you climb?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 882
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Yeah, volunteers usually do things as a spin-off of their personalities. They therefore feel entitled to do it their way and criticism is not well taken. None of us are saints, so when we do things for free we cannot do it dispassionately and we certainly don't want to account for it...What the heck!

If I do a first ascent of a route, in whatever style then it's there for free to climb by anyone. From these forums you can see that I don't take criticism lying down unless someone has local experience and does first ascents and has actually climbed or is at least au fait with the route.

Commenting on something is one thing but criticism needs to be carefully considered unless you are also at the same coal face. Otherwise you are morally bankrupt to do so.


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