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 Post subject: Confused
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:55 pm 
The situation over there seems really confusing. Various land owners unhappy with each other and with climbers; climbers unhappy with land owners and each other, and now various route guide developers. When I was there a couple of weeks ago, Scott and Dion were working on a route guide for the area, and doing a real good job, actually climbing (or getting people who are able to) each problem prior to recording it. Where exactly do you, Michael, come in? Shouldn't you guys be working together?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:57 pm 
Sorry, didn't mean to start a new thread. This was meant to be part of the De Pakhys bouldering thread


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:14 pm 
I wish people would use their real and full names in forum discussions ... would help reduce confusion.

FYI Michael (Janata) comes in at the same angle as Scott and Dion - ie, enthusiastic and committed boulderer wanting to make this great place more accessible and available to other boulderers. He obviously is just not aware that Scott and Dion are doing the same, and vice versa.

So perhaps a good starting point is to publish your name and contact details, then Michael can contact you to find out how to get in touch with Scott and Dion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:31 pm 
I'm currently producing a bouldering guide book for the Pakhuis/Agter Pakhuis area and have been living in Rocklands for 6 months. I don't want to sound like a know it all but I am quite knowledgable about the area as I have spent alot of time speaking to people and documenting the goings on up there during the last 4 years.
I have all the technical info for most of the boulders but maybe not those that people have opened and not told anyone about. Let me know about them if you want them to be included...
There are no due dates as yet but it will be published before the start of the next season.
On a different note: Michael you have caused more problems then you think and there are a few people that are not to chaffed with your actions! Maybe next time ask around with the locals that have been living up there and working hard to keep the peace and access. This is the opinion of many climbers (NOT JUST ME) and the owner at Alpha Farms.
Bring it on! I say this because every time someone in the climbing community(not quite, everyone for himself) says something someone is bound to shoot him down...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:38 pm 
Who the hell is Michael Janata anyway? Committed boulder you say? Why has no-one I know seen him in Rocklands this season?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:49 pm 
Hey Evan, Danny Pinkas here, the confused one. I was a \"guest\" because I'm not from that part of the land and was a bit reluctant to stick my nose into issues that I'm not very sure of. On the other hand, the situation down there seemed a little crazy not to write anything. One day it was o.k to climb at Alpha farms, the next not, and on yet another only if you walked on a certain farmer's land without stepping onto a neighbouring (and surrounding) farm. Now, it appears, there are multiple guide writers working independently of each other and involved in separate negotiations with land owners in the area. I only knew of Scott's work, but I do know Mike Janata and am sure that if they got together the results would be to the benifit of all concerned, not least the climbing community. Hope it all sorts itself out, but from reading between the lines, I sense that some guidance from the local \"wisemen\" is the only way to ensure that, as a community, climbers sing from the same song sheet when dealing with the farmers.
BTW, only the first 2 \"guest\" entries are mine, not the 3rd!


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 Post subject: De Pakhuys Confusion?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:04 pm 
Michael Janata is the only climber that have permission from the actual owner, Thys Kruger (me), to do topo's of the spots on my land. Michael and Guy Holwill are the only guys who ever spoke to me personally about climbing on my property - apart from discussions I had with Justin Hawkins back in May 2005. As land owner I got worried about the destruction - not by all climbers but some - of the enviroment around the boulders because of the lack of proper path ways in this new area. Please respect that we want to formalize routes and lay out proper paths before we open the area again. My only intention is to share this wonderful spot with climbers once we are ready. Please refrain from calling Mike names - his doing this for all of you and not for personal gain - he's not getting paid neither does he want a cent for his trouble.

Why dont you all stop the speculation and I will make sure once we are ready to ask Justin to announce same on this site with all relevant information.


Thys Kruger


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:36 am 
I thought that Klem had already done a guide for the boulders near 'Alpha Farms'. What is Micheal actually doing, Klem's guide is pretty comprehensive. naturally if releasing a printed guide it would have to be referenced and expanded on, but what is Micheal's plan, PDF, printed?? In my opinion it's quite sad to see all the bickering that is going on. Thys you must understand the passion with which we approach bouldering. They are not simply big rocks lying around. Explaining your intentions like you have done now will go a long way in climbers understanding your views.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:07 am 
Thanks for using your real names. This is a huge step forward.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:13 pm
Posts: 2
Hi,

I really dont know why some guys are so aggressive.

Sorry that my reply sounded a bit short, but I discussed it earlier on with Justin Lawson and I got the impression that some boulderers wouldn’t get the message otherwise.

Initially we (Guy Holwill and myself) went to Connie and asked him for permission to go bouldering. After he told us that we need a permit from the land owners, Thys and Mark, we went to them. They were very friendly but concerned about the whole situation as well.
Even weeks after that, I still met climbers in the area who were there without asking for permission. I think that caused problems with the landowners as well.

I am as passionate about bouldering and climbing as anyone else. Sure I am happy to work together to do the guide book. The guide book Klem and friends put together is the best I have seen for any of the Rocklands areas. Problem is that it is labelled Alpha Farms and it is difficult to extend. There are so many possible new problems and new areas so we (Guy Holwill, Evan Weircx and I) decided to do a PDF guide which will be available for free download soon.

Please let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Michael


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:53 am 
Hi Stewart

I believe you have my chalk bag. Please can you drop me a mail at gregstreatfield@gmail.com so I can arrange to pick it up from you.


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 Post subject: Summary of the facts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
Hi all

Wow, there are a lot of excited people out there, with different views and understandings. Please let me try to summarise the facts so that we can move forward in a constructive manner.

* The bouldering area known as De Pakhuys (formally Alpha Farms) is owned by Thys Kruger and his neighbour Mark.

* Klem Loskott and friends opened a load of problems there earlier this year. They produced a hand written topo and distributed this through Alpha farms.

* The landowners were not consulted and they have some concerns about people climbing on their land (without asking permission). They have asked Michael Janata to produce a full topo for the area (based on Klem's), which will be distributed free as a PDF file.

* Currently they have closed the area to all climbers until proper paths have been constructed (and the topo is complete, so that people can find the proper paths). Please respect their wishes.

* I suggest that we discuss this at the next MCSA Tuesday night session - I'll speak to the organisers to get a 20 minute slot to bring everyone up to date. I will also post the dates etc on this website.

Regards

Guy Holwill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:11 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Guy Holwill
I've organised a slot at the MCSA on Tuesday 4 October to talk about the situation at De Pakhuys - hopefully this will be somewhat more constructive than ranting in a forum.

PLease will all interested people make an effort to be there.

Where: MCSA club house, 97 Hatfield Street, Cape Town
When: Tuesday 4 October, 8pm

EVERYONE IS WELCOME.

Incidentally, the main event that night is Tony Lourens talking about his recent trip to the USA.


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