Gustav mentioned this earlier so i thought i would start a new thread to expand on the idea.

Basically i think the idea for The Rock and Road is great except that it doesnt do much to include all the other climbers in the country who are not in the top 20. What i was thinking while in Boven and chatting to Gustav is that there be few Rock Rally events in the country which all count as points for a National Sport Climbing final to be held at a different Rock Rally Event each year whilst including the Rock and Road.

Ie. If we had a Montagu, Boven, Natal and possibly EC rock rally where people from all over the country could compete at any grade and their scores get added to a National Sport League ranking. Each year the final would be held in a different one of these locations with the culmination of the Rock and Road Trip much like the first Rock and Road which ended in Boven. This would then mean that people could enjoy getting together and having a blast at the different rock rallies and then after they have climbed watch the top 20 in a super final at the end of each event.

I think the date for the Montagu rally needs to change, unfortunate for the M3 but climbing in the rain sucks.

And i think if it could be organised in such a way that each event happens over a long weekend allowing people travel time and the possibility of Difficulty finals on the the 3rd day ...

For Natal ... there is the possibilty of umgeni as a venue? locals should know whether this would be good or not or if it has the potential. Its got camping down the hill right?

EC i dont know ...

anyway i'm just putting this out there as an idea

Hi

Micky, Gustav and whoever else would like help with this SA Climbing league thing going - as per my previous post, please do chat to Neil Margetts (or contact me then if you can't get hold of him) - he and some other people are already working on this sort of concept, I think it's great, really-really, so before you start your own thing, just check what's already happening with him? I just think it's better to pool efforts than each doing his own thing. Ideas welcome of course, I would think.

I agree on Montagu Rally date being slightly sucky (sory Justin) - I would have loved to come down, even if only to watch, but it's a bit hectic coming from "behind the boerie curtain" (tm(R) Fanta ) - all the long weekends in April seems like a much better choice to me?

And in case anyone was wondering, MetallicA RULES. 'nough said.

Muhahahahaha

Hi all.
There always seems to be a lot of talk and moaning and changing.
Firstly!
You can't have a ranking based on the handicap system, it seems to be the preferred system for some strange reason, but it won't work for a ranking.
Secondly!
I moved the Montagu Rock Rally last year to April and no one pitched. The climbers said they wanted the rally and that it should be moved, I did all of this, I added an extra category for the lower grade climbers and had loads of prizes and basically organized a great event. If the Cape Town climbers do not support these things there is no need to try and make things better.
It would be great to see some structure to the competition/rally scene. But I am totally burnt out and Justin and Rikki might be there already after this event, it looks like Snort has also gone very quiet and sounded a bit burnt out after his event.
So all I have to say is just pitch up to these events and the rest will follow, no climbers no event.
The Rock and Road trip and Boven Rally was awesome two years ago. This kind of thing would be amazing, I think the MCSA should take the Bull by the horns and create a paid position that gets this stuff moving, like back in the Jono Fisher days. One person to coordinate all events keeping organizers happy, sponsors happy, climbers happy and putting the sport in a position to grow and go some where.
Personally I do not quite see the point of the Rock and Road trip! So far!
The Rock Rallies are great and fun events with there being two different events, with two different styles. I believe there shouldn't be any more rock rallies, two is enough. Snorts event should be a mountain festival and there is definitely place for a proper competition on plastic for ranking and so on. How can one claim to be the best after a Rally!!!!???? Anyone with half a brain will realize this is a joke. Sorry, but the idea of having a Rock Rally in each province and choosing a team to go over seas to represent us at a proper comp is....... well should I say any more. Can you imagine the winners of the Boven Rally going to Arco???? Go guys!
Guys like Snort, Neil, Gustav, Justin and Riki GO FOR IT!! At the moment it all seems so splintered and going no-where, please team together, put ego's aside and create something sustainable. The money from the Rock and Road trip could have created a fantastic base for a proper comp on plastic for every one. Having one at the Waterfront, one in Durbs by the sea and one in JHB. Two fun Rock Rallies is fine and as many Festivals as need be and that should be it. Now all we need are the climbers to get out and support the events no matter what. See you all tomorrow at Avalon Springs.

Stuart.

Emile said:


Neither Micky or myself were planning to launch any onslaughts or hijacking efforts, we just exchanged ideas. I will make a point of chatting to Neil and supporting his efforts - good idea.

Stuart said:


Eish? That is a bit harsh?

I can not believe how the last 2 years have changed with hard sport climbing in SA! Since the first Rock and Road Trip, contact between climbers of different provinces have improved and there are suddenly a whole bunch of young climbers blasting through the 8a barrier! When the top level climbers get together and perform, it surely inspires the young guns to get to those levels?

On another note: a French climber onsighted SNAPDRAGON (29) two days ago, he waltzed up! Inspirational? I'd say.

_________________
Gustav
Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
rocrope dot com

eish ... i didnt think i was complaining, just putting an idea out there to see what people think, something which can maybe help revive the montagu rock rally's and hopefully find a way to use the efforts of Rock and Road to incorporate the the rest of the climbing community.

anyway whatever

Cool.

But Metallica still rules.

What about Scorpions?

_________________
Gustav
Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
rocrope dot com

Hi Guys

The MCSA has been working on a competition section where all the school leagues, inter-vasty, NBL and Rock and Road competitors register. The national comps, when they come, will also be included. From this the money will go towards IFSC registration, organising national team etc. The idea is to coordinate a chain where all climbers have a path to follow from primary school, to high, varsity, NBL (which includes others), national, Rock and Road and then international. This is all part of the original plan - to launch a SA Climbing Renaissance. Rock rallies etc. are great, make our calendar full, something for climbers to work towards and will work alongside this plan so that everybody is involved.
Neil

This is also just a thought and certainly not meant as criticism of these events or those organising them, I for one had great fun at the Du Toits event (my first rally). If I had more than two cents to rub together right now Id probably be in Montagu:

Perhaps the very concept of a 'Rally' should be moved away from? Dashing around in some mad race to climb as much as possible. We've already seen numerous accidents when people rush descents etc. For me the word 'rally' conjures up images of guys racing offroad bikes around at break neck speed for endless exhausting hours

I would like to see a performance based competition where people could climb as little or as much as they like. The focus would be on acheiving your personal best over the whole weekend (not trying to cram 50 routes into 6hours). This would be way more social as ppl just hung out resting, mingling and watching the climbing. Also it would bring the focus back to difficulty, which is supposedly what sport climbing is about, and allow proper rest between attempts. The scoring could work on two tiers (basically two comps within a comp), a handicap type competition where anyone could win based on purely on how their performance improved on the weekend, and an out and out difficulty competition where the top enders would be battling it out for the top slot. These two comps could also be divided into age categories if needed, maybe you'd get an age category prize and an overall prize type thing.


So basically moving away from the concept of a race and creating something that was more social, where ppl could interact over the whole weeekend and not just at the evening braai. Some DJ's and a massive party each night would not go amiss either. Think Petzl Roctrip, non stop party. Sitting around a campfire is ok but doesnt necessarily appeal that much to the young at heart. This would also appeal to spectators thus drawing non-climbers into the mix, good for expanding the sport.

Anyway just my thoughts about all this. Hope Montagu rocks, thinking of you all.

How can you not see the point of Rock 'n Road?????
I think it has really boosted hard sport climbing in this country. It has inspired people to actually push their grades and gotten the hard crankers to crank even harder. Two years ago it was good enough (for the girls) to be cranking low 20s to get onto RnR. Now no less than 26/27 will do. It has not only exposed climbers to harder climbing but also spotlighted crags and routes around the country. People are now far more willing to travel to crags around the country and thus get more exposure to different types of rock which can only help their climbing.
Rock 'n Road has done more for climbing in this country than any other competition or media.

The Roc and Road is having a similar effect that the national competitions had back in the early 90's eg Waterfront Comps. The standard of climbing ( particularly women's) at that time also leapt up. 
At the start of those competitions, leading 21s may have got a woman a podium place but towards the end, flashing or quick redpointing of 24 / 25 was the required standard just to get into the finals.

The Du Toit's rock rally was an experiment that was successful and worth doing annually as a national event for various reasons. However In terms of the Sport climbing league the Western Cape is probably a waste of time as local participation is poor over the last few years. The reasons are various, probably the main one being that individuals want to do their own thing and just go climbing with their mates.

The other main reason is probably a cultural thing:

I lived in JHB most my life. Gauteng and Natal and very busy commercial centres with huge populations of busy and motivated like minded people that are very hungry for organized physical outlets like climbing. The environment is also generally more competitive. So I perceive people to be less parochial, less prejudiced and cliquey, more out-going, more attuned to organized events and more integrated than the Western Cape. I find this is my ordinary daily life and in my work: (I still travel to JHB once a month having lived here for 12 years)

E.g: in some ways, Paarl and Stellenbosch are further away from Cape Town than what JHB or Durban is to some people. Even places like Seapoint are culturally very different to say, Mowbray, or Goodwood, or Constantia. I know several Cape Tonians who have the means and yet they have never visited Kirstenbosch Gardens, or gone for a walk on TM! Both these activities are of the most desirable things for tourists to do in the world today!

There is also appears to be much more money up North, or at least people are willing and or able to pay for what they get.

As the schools bouldering league evolves there may be more interaction between people that are culturally different and things may change but for now I cannot see rock rally's attracting local climbers much.

i think the montagu rock rally has been dying a slow death over the years for a number of reasons.

I think it could be revived if it were moved to around December holidays when its pretty much guaranteed to be sunny. The holiday time means that all the Durban and Gauteng climbers can make the effort to do a road trip down to the cape when conditions aren't that good in their provinces. I'd rather travel a long distance if it could be a few days or a week rather than a single rainy weekend.

A party would help ... i think one of the big draw cards to the boven rally is the party. A party at the campsite works too because you can have your own braai's have one main spot to party or just mingle around at peoples braai spots, you arent forced to either have to be at the party or at your campsite you can do both

sponsors ... at the moment i can kinda see why sponsors aren't keen but if the rally was bigger and more festive and the sponsors offered more it would also attract more people.

I'm not complaining or moaning just offering some suggestions ... and i wasn't there this weekend because i am doing final mix, deadline is this eve

Micky Indeed.

Timing is everything. Montague is too hot in mid summer.

The Cape is far but people did come from afar to the Du Toit's rally and the event was well supported by non-western Cape climbers.

The main sponsors supported the Du Toit's rock rally extremely well and there were great festivities on the Sat and Sun nights....So yes, a party is a must!

The next one in parallel with the Roc N Road in the western cape is planned for March next year ending on Monday 22 March, Human Rights Day.

In the last year i have been to all Rock rallies/major events i think- Rock n Road, Boven, Rory, Hellfire, NBL and Montegu- i love my rallies especially events like the Rory or Boven where the fact that it is a competition is coincidental to why i was there. I love standing at the start line dressed as a knight of Camelot while laughing at the guys dressed as “Scotch on the Rocks”. To me rallies are all about the fun- i am not a top end climber, nor do i want to be: i climb to have fun and to socialise.

One of the most disappointing things about WP is that everyone here sees rallies as competitive events: only for those that intend to win. And as a result the events here (Hellfire, NBL and Montegu) see less then 40 entrants, mostly the same people. In the evening before and after the events they go their separate ways not socializing with each other. At last 2008 Rory a KZN crowd drank over 4 cases of beer just on the event day, only stopping because they ran out. Ram sponsored 3 cases for the Hellfire rally: I took the leftovers to NBL and then Montegu for all to enjoy, I still have nearly a case left. I know beer consumption is a terrible indicator of a rallies success, but it does indicate how much fun/social the event is.

Most climbers never climb harder then 21, they climb occasionally with some mates or family. Yes, the core communities are serious climbers, but that is true for most sports. I see climbing as a lifestyle, not a job and hope that so does everyone else.

What ever is decided by the powers that organise these events i ask that the element of fun opportunity to socialize is not lost as the national organisation of events gains momentum, i don’t see why the rallies cannot have these sideline activities included without taking away from the main event.

_________________
Sandbagging is a dirty game

I think you are being very harsh on the Cape Climbers.

For one, I know that I was very, very keen to attend both events in the Cape that were staged in the last month or so, but work forced me to cancel my plans.

The nature of my work (as a lecturer), and of the myriad of university students who are climbers, is that work comes in chunks - outside of the busy times its easy to find time to climb and do other fun things, but when the work is there, there is no spare time. End of term is a time where I have projects and class tests to mark, exams to set, and thesis students to supervise. Had the Montagu rally been a week later I'd have been there, my guess is that many students would not mind a climb during their study break.

That said, I know that I have missed many many events, so I guess I can't blame them all on work (although it does seem like I'm constantly working). I am not for a moment saying the events were mistimed, I know that its hard to accommodate everyone, and that planning a major event is a real pain the the nether-regions.

All I implore the people who have taken the time to organise these events is to please not stop. I have a feeling that if the UCT-MSC advertised the events directly to their members, and the events were out of the "hell weeks" near mid-term, term end and out of exams many students (and the odd lecturer) would attend.

Ernesto

_________________
I don't think, therefore I'm Not