Hey fellow climbers... I always find it a shame when crags are polluted with all sorts of crap. Having not been to Strubens Valley for many a month, I was rather horrified to discover that it has become a dumping ground. All I ask is that everyone cleans up after themselves..... You carried it in, so carry it out..... and that goes for anywhere you may be, even in a major city.

Pollution due to laziness seems to on the up, maybe we should resurrect that ostrich from the 80's... what was his name ? ? Zibby or something ?

_________________
\"If you don't break your ropes while you're alive do you think ghosts will do it after?\" -
Kabir

Zippy. Something like : \"Zip dit in 'n blik\" if I remember right...
Man, I have forgotten about the ostrich!
Kinda weird hearing about such things again. Nobody knows about these things in NZ...

\"Zap it in the Zeeby\" I wish they would resurrect that ostrich, especially in townships and taxi ranks. I think in most cases people are negligent rather than deliberate, they really dont think about the effect of the actions

I was at Chosspile on Sunday. We arrived before everyone else and left after everyone else. With us we took two Energade bottles and a couple of stompies left behind by some people who attended a beginners' meet hosted by MCSA. It's not negligence. It's ignorance and dull-wittedness. I would suggest that MCSA erect signs at the crags warning aspiring outdoor fanatics that if they leave crap at the crags then eniviro-conscious climbers will crush their heads like grapes.

It's common sense innit, some people are just arse lazy unfortunately!

yeah I rate people are just plain lazy... hell I often take black bags with me and pick up tons of crap at crags, that does not bother me too much, what realy gets my ball hairs standing on end is the fact that I have to climb in a garbage heap.

Don't parents educate their children anymore, and the problem does not just stop at crags. Hiking in the berg is becoming insane, recently on a trip up grays pass and down ships prow we must have picked up about 2.5kg's in trash at kieths bush camp, wtf?

I just wish I could find the dogs that dump all their crap and heave all that litter onto their beds... that would sort them out !

Does any one know who/what orginisation was running that Zibby thing, I wanna see if anyone would start a new awareness programme on a nationl basis..... I think it is imoprtant...let me know....

shoto peeps keep well and keep the rock we climb clean.

_________________
\"If you don't break your ropes while you're alive do you think ghosts will do it after?\" -
Kabir

Not to offend anybody, but I think it is just a cultural thing that has developed amongst city residents, where they don't care or are too absorbed to take responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. I always associated them with yuppies, after meeting a few at crags i.e. read article in Menshealth subscription about climbing-go out and buy shiny new gadgets and go climb.

I don't want to generalise, many city climbers who have been at it for years appreciate the outdoors but its just an observation.

I went to Strubens today. The mess there is absolutely disgusting. Plastic bottles, food wrappers, and cigarette butts for africa. Whoever you people are, .... piss off. You have no respect for the environment or the mountains, and certainly don't deserve to use pristine crags like Boven, Harrismith, and Magaliesberg. Give up climbing. You are not wanted and your filthy and thoughtless actions may well lead to the closure of important crags. Pond scum! Bottom-feeders!

You guys are absolutely right. Strubens is a tip. Then again, so are most of Gautengs spots. Even that cr@p hole called 'secret garden' is spoiled. (Mostly by the developers I think).
Timmy is right. Keiths is 'dodge the turd when pitching your tent' work.
What can be done to police this?

Good day,sorry im answering you so late but was out the country
it was a MCSA meet but not a beginners
myself/son 2xcouples cleaned up the bottom crag and also picked up 1x energade bottle chocolate papers cigare butts we even packed the rocks at the bottom for the ropes so they do not slide down and to place our mats on
Through the day many other people arrived and also used the same grades
We left the crag at 1600 and ONCE again cleaned up
There were others still climbing
MCSA meets are organized and all members know they MUST take there rubbish back
TO solve problem please make Ghosspile for members only as we bolt and clean up this crag

Garth, I am not a MCSA member,and I clean up after myself and others. I think it is unfair to say that it is only non-members that do all the trashing.

I am into conservation and probably more so than many MCSA members.

The problem is a general one and some kind of awareness campaign should be created to address this problem on a national basis, it is not only at crags where we see this disregard for others and our environment.

_________________
\"If you don't break your ropes while you're alive do you think ghosts will do it after?\" -
Kabir

I can't claim to be any great dinosour in the climbing world, but in the past five years or so I've been climbing, the 'Menshealth' trend has been on a dramatic rise. I started climbing at Strubens and the Chosspile, and by the time I moved to Cape Town two years later there was already a vast increase in the human traffic with shiny new toys to be seen at the two crags.

I think the solution would lie in ourselves ... we that have mucho respecto for the mountain and crag environment. To blame and complain online, after leaving a littered crag, isn't going to do much good. It's much the same as arriving home after leaving a puppy inside all day, and beating it senseless for having planted a bowel flower on your favourite persian rug. He's never been taught that it's a big no no!

Take this situation into the mountains, where loads of city dwelling generation x-ers are just starting to take there first steps in learning about loving, and giving back to, the natural environment. Now you have a whole crew of happy campers who have never had to dig a toilet, shove stompies back in their pockets, or take their other litter away with them. Virgin Active has rubbish bins and flush loo's in each branch, so these folks are probably expecting something similar in the now-trendy sport called climbing. They don't know much about the environment, nor their effects on it, in the first place, so it's a little unfair for us to immediately expect it of them.

It is up to us to teach, and lead by example. No-one else is going to. So, the next time we see someone messing up our crags, let's try have friendly word with the culprit and offer some free education on envrionmental etiquette. Now some people may not take a liking to being educated, or in his eyes humiliated, and may perhaps get a little upset or violent. For this reason, always carry a big hex. My number 8 is called The Headmaster!

It doesnt make sense? You would think we are all outdoors because we enjoy nature, if that wasnt the case we would all be climbing in gyms?, even if you dont clean up for the sake of others think about the fact that your mess is going to be there when next you come back - why screw up your own environment? Its a mission carrying all the food and water to the crag but its so easy to carry the empty wrappers etc home - so just do it? Or is throwing your rubbish down some sort of demonstration of dominance - it sounds lame, but what else can it be?

okay...okay, this is not solving the problem, as i mentioned a few times, an awareness campaign needs to be launched on a national level.

Does anyone know of orginisations besides Pik-it-up that would be interested in this ? Anybody know anyone that can help.

Perhaps we could fling a few ideas around and then ask the system admin to run a poll to see what people think would be most effective.

Lets stop b!^!#g and moaning and SOLVE something for a change

_________________
\"If you don't break your ropes while you're alive do you think ghosts will do it after?\" -
Kabir

[lways carry a big hex. My number 8 is called The Headmaster!

Its not that messy folks don't like the hills. Its that they think its not their responsability. People think that it must be someones job to keep it clean. The government, monkeypality, MCSA, a department, older climbers, nature conservation...it goes on. As much as we expect stuff to happen some how. It is our job to teach & do. Everything. Take ownership! [/quote]