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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:23 pm
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Location: Gauteng
This past weekend a bunch of Pretoria climbers decided to ignore the agreement with the owners and camp and make a fire at the bottom parking area (camping and making fires are not permitted). At around 22:00 Friday evening we (MCSA) got a call from one of the guys collecting the parking money about the unknown climbers (who have not signed in nor paid the access fee). There was some confusion over what exactly the problem was which necessitated me in driving there in the middle of the night to sort things out. The long and the sort of it was that a meeting was held at around 01:00 with the owners, who were not amused at all. The owners complained about the climbers (which in effect were trespassing) and requested that the camping climbers leave. The owners reiterated their request that 1) climbers can not overnight and may only climb during daylight hours 2) no fires be made (the owners farm with livestock and a fire will damage grazing and potentially cause livestock losses) 3) rubbish be taken out 4) all climbers must pay the agreed access fees (these and other rules are clearly stated on the wiki as well as on the access register).

This incident as well as continued (unrelated) problems with climbers not paying the access fees and in rare cases people swearing and shouting racial slurs at the guys collecting the money is straining the relationship with the owners and if this continues, could severely impact access to this crag.

I would like to, on behalf of the MCSA and I believe the general climbing community (please comment here if you differ) please ask all climbers that use the Bronkies crag to consider:
  • The crag is on private property and the owners have the right to improse access conditions and ask us to leave if we do not keep to the arrangements
  • This is one of the most important and regularly visited general sport climbing crags in the Gauteng area and we as the climbing community can not afford to loose access to this crag (not to mention the thousands of Rands and hours that went into bolting the crag)

Over the next few months we will keep a close eye on things and if the current problems continue we might be forced to (with the support of the owners) take firm action against individuals or in extreme cases reintroduce the restricted access arrangements (these access restrictions were in place several years ago when the relationship was still being strengthened and more control was needed).

I understand that some times there are some problems (e.g. some times it takes a while for they guys to come down to collect the money), but this is not our property and we are in no position to tell them how to run it. We have however confirmed the standing arrangement with the owners that the car registration numbers and if possible names of all transgressors be kept for follow-up purposes. Up to now these names have not been made public (I have several names and car registration numbers who have not paid in the past), but I think we need to start doing that as these climbers are putting your and my access to this crag at risk.

I ask all climbers to assist us in nipping these problems in the bud by keeping to the rules (if not, please stay away). We need to keep this little gem of a crag open to all

Dean van der Merwe


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:55 am 
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Name them. Post face pics if possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:12 am 
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Who are these morons? Please name and shame. No-one can claim that they didn't know about the rules. The only place to get an RD is on this site with the rules clearly posted for all to see. I say ban the particular climbers involved - show the land owner that the climbing community is serious about keeping access open.

I'd much much much rather have a couple of pissed off people who didn't follow the rules than lose the crag for every other climber.

The stupidity. WTFF?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:41 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:39 pm
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Location: JHB
Name & Shame!!!
We should take action against people who are jeopardising our access.

The rules for this venue are easily available and I really think few people can claim that they have never seen them.

The next question is, why would you want to camp at Bronkies? If you really want to stay there surely you could find a campsite around the dam.

Thanks a lot for heading out there on Friday night Dean. There are very few climbers who would do this. I appreciate the effort.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:02 am 
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Location: Waterval Boven
I do think it is also worth mentioning that the only number the guard had, was for the rescue team. Now, a call from a climbing area late at night where climbers are not supposed to be ... and the guard with limited English language skills reporting a problem with the climbers ...

The result being that somebody had to drive out and assess the situation and put half the rescue team on standby!

Dean, pass their names on to me, the guys at Wellingtons, Swinburne, Eagle Mnt, other sections of the MCSA etc. We'll make sure they are not welcome for 6 months or so ... that might teach them.

Climbing on private property is a privilege, not a freakin' right. In some cases you need to pay and then you still don't have much rights (ever thought about that?).

I don't climb much at Bronkies but in 'Boven, well over R1 Million has been spent on bolting since 1991, not counting the time it has taken.

If people keep on acting irresponsibly, we may end up paying more for access in the future. And say what you want about the MCSA, who else is going to negotiate access for you, BUY your next favourite crag or rescue you from an epic on Blouberg?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Real Name: Andrew Kyriacou
I think an investment in a signboard stipulating the rules should be looked into. Secondly the Guards could give every car gaining access a rule sheet (20c investment per car)

Andrew


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Real Name: Nigel Bailes
I say "name & shame" these individuals :pukel:, we have so few good crags in JHB that to lose access to Bronkies would be a trajedy to say the least.

I agree with MarkM, why would you want to camp there anyway?

Well done Dean, the decent climbing community appreciates your efforts.
Nigel


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Location: JHB
napaman wrote:
I think an investment in a signboard stipulating the rules should be looked into. Secondly the Guards could give every car gaining access a rule sheet (20c investment per car)

Andrew


Who will be paying for the signboard and rule sheets?

The only spot to accesss route information for the crag is on this site (as far as I know), which has the rules clearly stated.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
I agree with naming the people involved.
The other (unrelated) problems with climbers not paying the access fees and swearing/racial slurs is just as big a problem in my opinion!?

Good job Dean.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Location: Waterval Boven
Quote:
Who will be paying for the signboard and rule sheets?


The MCSA and the land owner can each pay a share? The land owner is making [some] money from the deal and as the MCSA (representing climbers here if you are a member or not!), we want to keep the area open in the name of having available climbing areas in SA.

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013 257 0363
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Real Name: Andrew Kyriacou
If anyone from the MCSA posts a pdf with letterhead on and the rules for the crag i dont mind printing a bunch of them and taking it to the crag wen i go back (usually every second week). Ill replenish em as i go back. The guard must just write down the number plate on the sheet, cause some chop will chuck it out the window in sure. As for the sign Gustav is right the MCSA and the land owner.

Andrew


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:29 am 
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Name and Shame! I agree with Gustav, pass those names around and let them have a hard time finding a place to climb. I wouldn't even make it 6 months, make it permanent! Should do the same with littering! The Jo'burg climbing community doesn’t need chops like that!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:09 pm 
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I agree, name and shame! :evil:

Signboard sounds good but handing out pamflets with rules on it sounds silly to me as it will cause rubbish as people lose or through them at the crag.

w

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Location: Waterval Boven
Do you get a receipt when parking at Bronkies? Print Rules/Conditions on the back?

Maybe the MCSA can facilitate this process?

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013 257 0363
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Location: Centurion / JHB, South Africa
CragRat would just like to say.....

..... you Pretoria climbers are dead to me now :pukel: .......

I would swap 100 of you for just one Eagle..... you bunch of embarrassing losers. :puker:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:38 am 
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Real Name: Paul P
Says the climber from Pretoria...? Anywho, generalisation is for the weak of mind. Have a nice day, now. :thumleft:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Location: Beverley
Real Name: Larry Thomas
who took Cragrat off belay????


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