Quantcast
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:21 pm

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Some stuff to ogle at and get inspired by.
Note: The lines drawn may not be 100% accurate.
Does anyone know where Second Coming goes? Anyone prepared to sketch in the stances / correct lines?

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by XMod on Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:23 pm
Posts: 232
Nice pictures Greg.

Tony Dick and Dave Davies established Second Coming as a free onsight opening ascent about 15 years ago. It has now recently been opened again and had 8 bolts put in it via toprope by the young Germans who called it Fighting the Dark Side of Gravity.

Armageddon Times Direct goes straight up the grand arete that is directly above the top bolt of Fighting the Dark Side of Gravity (What was previously Second Coming). It was opened by Chris Lomax, Dave Davies and Cathy O'Dowd in January 1990. Jeremy incorrectly mentioned that he had made the first ascent and that the route was unrepeated. He did the second ascent. He probably meant that he had done the first free ascent. The first ascent was one of the best onsight opening ascents in the Cape, ever. Chris led off the halfway ledge on desperate stuff without gear and eventually, hanging off a hook, placed a hand-drilled quarter-inch bolt. He did this again higher up. They would have freed the route completely except that it wasn't possible to place hand-drilled bolts and hang on while they were climbing grade 25/26. The second ascentionists didn't have this draw-back. The third pitch was a helluva onsight free opening lead that Chris and Dave graded G2. Jeremy wrote up his later free ascent of the route and graded this third pitch 24+.

No More Bells goes up the front of the first Chesspiece. This is the first buttress of rock to the right of the huge descent gully in your second picture. It was opened by Dave and Alan Ross in March 1992.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:17 am
Posts: 42
Newborn is in the wrong spot. It starts just right of route marked 1. and climbs straight up, unwavering, to the top. What's nice about it is that it climbs a very steep amphitheatre of bullet hard pale yellow rock directly below where Time Warp tops out - the steepest part of the wall.

Hope I didn't sound arrogant but a few people have climbed Armegeddon direct. Dave Birkett definately possibly Tinie.

It's wierd that people haven't mentioned the Looking Glass Wall. I heard it's been climbed , we jumped off it once but were hopeless in our attempts to climb it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 173
Don't mention, and DEFINITELY DON'T BOLT the LGW!!! This one MUST remain inviolate and unblemished!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:14 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Ernesto Ismail
That stikes me as a really silly approach.

I understand wanting to hide a crag/face/wall if you are trying to put up a new route there - but saying "don't mention it" is silly. What if some brick-hard climber comes across your unmentioned wall, decides there are no traddable lines and choses to bolt it - what then? Surely its better to have a list of all areas deemed to remain bolt free, by general concensus/landowners wishes/etc. That way there is recourse for action. This is very similar to me saying that its silly to never mention "that place in the hex", I know it exists - so unless there are clearly note rules about the place how can you expect compliance?

_________________
I don't think, therefore I'm Not


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Thanks for the info Jeremy and Hilton. Fixed the pic (I think?). I'd like to draw up a proper topo for the place so any input is helpful, then we can have something up on the wiki. If information on existing routes is more available it may prevent further retrobolting.

Hilton; I have climbed No More Bells with Mal and Ross, probably the best single line Ive climbed on trad. Perfect cracks, very runout technical sections. Shat off a bit, had a very wide eyed grin by the time I reached the last ledge!

Not; Richard is right, some places should be left as they are, LGW is definitely on that list by the landowners wish but, you may be right, perhaps there should be something in writing to guarantee the protection of those areas.


Last edited by XMod on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 173
The LGW is one of those places that must remain free of iron. Maybe my opinion but I draw the line there. I am amazed at how quick some of the contributors to this forum are to get personal. Not, whoever you are, call me silly to my face please.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 173
Further to my immediate irritation, and indignation, re. Not's response...

I have climbed often, on, and in the vicinuty of, the LGW over the last 20 years. This is a very special area, not just a fantastic wall. There is still the old sense of wilderness to be found here.
I have opened at least 25 routes in the area, including two on the LGW, both of which unfortunately avoid the main challenge. The Smith-Lomax line follows the obvious feature, and will go free!
I have longed to climb the area to the right of the Smith-Lomax line, and even considered placing a few bolts, to reduce it to my level of mediocrity. After much thought I decided that the only way to climb this wall is by fair means. It simply has that aura about it. It was my intention to start working it this summer but I am now leaving CT so won't get around to it. Please, please, let's be reasonable here and leave this area, and the others that have been listed recently, without bolts.
I have had my trad routes bolted, and seen too many other good trad routes retro-bolted, usually by folk who didn't have the decency to find out who built the cairn, and left the abseil tat on top.

Some years ago I did bolt a line near the LGW. I felt like a criminal while doing it, not out of fear of prosecution, but at what I was doing in such a beautiful place. I have never gone back to it, and deeply regret the action.

I am not suggesting that this place must be kept secret but do know that if the masses start visiting it will only be a matter of time before bolts appear ...

I am leaving for Limpopo Province in a month's time. At risk of sounding really corny, please Keep The Cape In Shape!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:14 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Ernesto Ismail
Hang on. hang on;

I'm not call YOU silly Richard. I am merely saying that "secret areas" don't lend themselves to maintaining a standard - openness with free access to information is the only way its going to work.

Sorry I offended - was not the intention, I just get really frustrated when people get annoyed when people don't toe the the line when the line has never been drawn for them.

_________________
I don't think, therefore I'm Not


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:23 pm
Posts: 232
Earlier today Bruce Daniel, Neil Havenga and I did No More Bells for the first time. We agree with XMod. It really is a fine route. A baby Celestial Journey. Grade 19 climbers should flock out there for this one. The rock is superb, the friction is fantastic and the climbing is interesting for five pitches.
We added a new top pitch above the final ledge where the route ended. In XMod's second photo at the top of the Chesspiece you see a bright white face topped by two big roofs. The pitch heads up a slightly overhanging recess with a razor sharp vertical flake then balances out left to swing through a break in the roofs. It looks hard but went at about 20; but fairly serious. The gear takes effort and is thin. Its nice to finish on the summit.
The walk-in is 3 hours. There is only a slow drip near the Yellowwood Amphitheatre.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 2:10 pm
Posts: 133
Location: cape town
Not that I've climbed that many 19's but "No more bells" rates right up there with one of the best I've climbed in fact a definite must do 5 star route. Just fantastic, Dave you really have opened some great routes. The walk in is a piece of cake :pukel:.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Ive added some RD's for Yellowwood to the Wiki (hope Jeremy and ADK wont hate me for copying from their book, but rather that than Prime Time getting retrobolted by some other overseas visitors - right?!).

More info on Chesspieces and other will follow next month.
Just to qualify Hiltons post: make that very competent grade 19 leaders! No More Bells has some delicate and dangerous passages on it. Also dont touch the huge flake at the traverse at all!! Its ready to fly at any moment! And - yes! - the walk-in definitely puts the puny approach to Hellfire into perspective, but its fully worth the effort.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:16 pm
Posts: 39
Rob Zipples, Malcom Gowans and Ian Durbach were up at the Chess Pieces a few months' ago in the vicinity of No More Bells opening some interesting new routes in the grade 22-24 realm. The new routes sound fantastic. I hear the RD's will be published shortly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 173
I agree with all the comments so far re. No More Bells. It is one of the finest, albeit rather short, "country" routes in the area. Almost anything done up there is bound to be good. It's clear why the Chesspieces were so popular in the 1960's.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
Hilton wrote:
Nice pictures Greg.

Tony Dick and Dave Davies established Second Coming as a free onsight opening ascent about 15 years ago. It has now recently been opened again and had 8 bolts put in it via toprope by the young Germans who called it Fighting the Dark Side of Gravity.

Hang on a sec, am I missing something here. Why has nothing been said about the fact that Second Coming has been RETRO-BOLTED? And why has it been renamed if new bolts were added? Was permission given for the bolts?
And if not, then what the f*** is going on?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 882
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
X-mod route 5 is wrong!. The dots continuing up to where they traverse right is a grade 24 pitch which is the direct start to Prime Time that I did last year. Time Warp traverses below that about half way up those dots....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 173
I'm a teetotaller but Prime Time sounds fantastic. Is there an RD available for the whole route? I can only find one for the two pitches of the Direct?
And yes, there has been a lot of silence surrounding what sounds like some serious breach of etiquette. Is the "new" German route inded new, or did they retro-bolt portions of Second Coming?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 882
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Prime Time is the route to do. This is what Ged Desforges said about SA climbing after he did it w me.

Big numbers? Bolts? Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Here's my tuppence worth.

Let's face it, sport climbing in South Africa is shit. Waterval Boven world class? Please, I've done better climbing on my chin up bar (except for Monster, that's good). If you want to see what good sport climbing is, go to Spain. End of story. As for Montague, don't even consider trying to tell me that's good. I've seen better multi-gyms than that.

However, the trad you boys have got is certainly something to be considered carefully. My screensaver at work, and picture on my fridge is of my foot, below which can be seen a notorious Cape Town orthopaedic surgeon abseiling down, with much of the yellowwood amphitheatre beneath him. In between me and him are several bits of gear, put in place to keep him in contact with the rock. I doubt there'd be much bouncing if the anchor ripped. Above me is a solitary rock 6. This was one of the most memorable moments of my year/life. Luckily I managed to take a snap to etch it in my mind. In the distance the sun was setting, and half an hour later we'd be abbing down the lower half of the wall in pitch black. This was the end of one of the most memorable days climbing I've ever had.

The pitch with the crucial offset blue alien was fun, and the steep finger crack was great until i got cramp in my arms and nearly peeled off. But the crux pitch! Now I'm not one for foul language, but fuck me. That was something. I just couldnt make myself make the moves onto the detached, booming pillar. I hung on the belay, trying to force myself to do it, knowing how much Snort wanted to get up this route. He'd done that pitch, and once I'd committed he coaxed me up to the roof, warning me to save the green alien for higher up. Fuck that, the first decent break and I stuffed in every cam I could find to put some emotional distance between me and that pillar. The pinchy, pumpy, crumbly stuff above that was the stuff dreams are made of, especially when you're staring a perfect green alien slot in the eyes, wishing you'd saved it. That belay was a nice one. Stumbling down to the road at midnight, after 14 hours on the go, a long way from Cape Town, and an even longer way from Sheffield, tired, hungry, thirsty, bleeding; I couldnt have been happier.

Point is you lot have got some of the finest adventure climbing imaginable. Don't waste it. I'll be back soon, so keep your filthy mits off that crack line we abbed down.

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Charles, thanks for input, I really need to sit down with someone who knows the wall well to draw the place up properly. Does the line traverse at the obvious rail below a thin roof?
I just put this up so that the info is out there and therefore overseas visitors visitors can have no excuse for retrobolting our routes, as such the drawing in its present state is just a sketch, hopefully we can get it done better soon and update the wiki accordingly. I only had the tiny black and white photo you posted as reference which made the drawing job a bit difficult. Hoping to shoot even better pics soon and starting the next book - Du Toits Kloof area multipitch climbing. In the meantime I think its a good thing to have the info freely available, both to protect existing routes and to get people out there and cranking on them, the rock up there is absolutely outstanding!

Stu, Richard, I think the retrobolting is at the heart of the last blow up thread, a point I and others totally missed! Moral: dont rant when you dont know whatsup - sorry Charles & Hilton!!!!! As far as I can make out there is only one line they could have followed so it looks like the route was reclimbed (and retrobolted here and there) in its entirity! Id like to see another photo of the East Germans on the cover page of Climbing.com - one where they are trying to explain how they managed to bolt over an existing clean trad route established almost twenty years ago!! :bom:

Charles where can we find Prime Time RD's? Looked for a post on this site but came up empty handed, would be nice to put that up on the wiki too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
Sorry but I feel strongly about this. Alot has been said here, including Tristan's article on Weighting the Dice - and yet it seems the retro-bolting of an existing trad line on Yellowwood established by some of the more respected climbers in SA has just been accepted as standard practise? Where are all the pursists and 'keepers of the wall'? I would have expected loud calls for those bolts to be chopped ASAP.

One thing that should remain sacred, well above potential new lines, are existing routes. I was heavily slated (and rightly so) by some folks when I retro-bolted a 3 pitch run-out route at Paarl Rocks (since been restored to it's original state). This was a good thing, as I came to see the error of my ways, as I had not only stripped the route of it's character, but the achievments of the first ascentionists, and have since come to frown upon retro-bolting unless there is good cause.

Some clarification is needed regards this. Toproping an existing route and slamming in power drilled bolts - poor form.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:31 am
Posts: 115
Sorry to hijack the topic a bit but Ged (in his infinite wisdom, whoever he is, as reported by Snort) claims: "Waterval Boven world class? Please, I've done better climbing on my chin up bar (except for Monster, that's good)". I'd just like to tell Ged to enjoy his chin up bar and to stay at Yellowwood next visit because clearly he has already done Boven's one and only good route!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:22 pm
Posts: 38
Real Name: Adam Roff
@Stu. You make a very good point. I was wondering why the revelation that second coming has been retro-bolted has not caused great furore. I can only imagine that other furorers already knew as greg has suggested, or maybe everyone just got worn out with fighting in the last thread. Or maybe snort got fed up waiting for someone to onsight prime time, slugged down the laggers and is nursing an almighty hangover.

This is I believe clear cut, and i'd be surprised if there is any dissent:
In the event that the exact pitches of second coming, an existing old trad route opened ground up in fine style, have been retro-bolted, those bolts need to be removed. It gets trickier if the line is different or slightly different. Then we can all fight some more.

I would be willing to go out there and pull the offending bolts if indeed they are on exactly the same line as Second Coming. I spent yesterday afternoon with the ARF folk pulling old hardware out of the mine so now i'm an expert! I will need some help with this mission. So if you feel strongly enough about the heritage of existing trad routes to spend a day up there yanking hardware and repairing the cliff then pm me.

Before this tho:

Has anyone done both second coming and the gravity route and can confirm they are the same?

_________________
Adam Roff


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
...and if the new 'route' only has say two or so pitches that do vary, then there is no new route and those bolts should to be chopped.
@adamr - are there any ingenius techniques to removing old bolts, or is it just the ol hacksaw and grinder method? Could you PM me if indeed you guys have invented any special methods, as I'll be requiring them soon :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
Adam maybe you and Snort should form a 'scorn committee' and compose a scathing letter to Climbing magazine who recently featured the East Germanasses (all smiles) on the front page of their site celebrating their route. (article: http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes ... th_africa/) While I dont agree with the 'scorn committee' concept (look what happened to visionaries like Fred Rhouling & Bernabe!) a transgression of this magnitude should be exposed on the international stage. Its pointless moaning about it here, it needs to be said to the world in places they are likely to look (no offense Justin/Rikki! - but I guess Climbing mag reaches more people). After that Im sure no-one in SA is gonna moan if you guys quitely went and chopped the thing.

I dont know the wall that well but certainly from the ledge up there is only one obvious natural line.

I actually tried e-mailing Matt Samet now but the mail wont go thru for some reason.


Last edited by XMod on Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1168
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
adam, stu & co: before publicly taking said german offenders to the big scorn stage, pls contact the guys and find out how come they retro bolted an existing route. i'm no expert on the topic, but how reasonable is it that they could have known about it or managed to get information on it?

from what i gather here very few people knows about the route & method of ascent - just concenred that we're now going to make an example of those guys (who obviously just love climbing) instead of really addressing the issue which is to have accessible information on where one can bolt and where not (as agreed by XMod & Hilton, hopefully before the Lord returns amen).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
To that end I have now put up RDs to many of the routes in Du Toits Kloof in the wiki.
Besides the difficulty in getting RDs any vistor to an overseas climbing area who wishes to place bolts and do new routes should always contact the local authority (in this case MCSA) to find out where existing routes are and what the prevailing bolting restrictions/regulations are. If these guys had bothered to make the slightest bit of effort in this regard they should easily have found out all about existing routes and the tradition of the area. It seems they just went there and did what ever they wanted. Next we will see a bolt ladder straight up TM crossing twenty old trad routes! :bom: If we wish to avoid this sort of embarassing stupidity in future some serious efforts need to be made to publish accessibly better info on our climbing areas that outlines clearly access issues, bolting restrictions etc, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
@ Mokganjetsi What are the chances those guys found out about Yellowwood by chance, surely there was some local involvement. And if you travelled to a foreign country wouldn't you contact the locals when considering placing bolts?

I'm not calling for naming and shaming at all - just to chop said bolts.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume their intentions were pure, but it doesn't change the fact that bolts were placed on a route that was opened about 20 years ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1168
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
Stu wrote:
@ Mokganjetsi What are the chances those guys found out about Yellowwood by chance, surely there was some local involvement. And if you travelled to a foreign country wouldn't you contact the locals when considering placing bolts?


yeah, agree with you. it just seems there are a bunch of routes around that even very few South Africans know about (or am I wrong?) - hence the need for a resource to indicate routes and no-bolt zones in areas like yellowwood. are the MCSA records complete in the sense that it would accurately indicate this route? if "yes" then to the frying pan with ze germans :eye:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 830
Real Name: Greg Hart
The routes are definitely all recorded. What is lacking is accessibility to the info. I urge the MCSA to push froward with 'electronicising' journal info (there are excellent scanning / writing-recognition programmes available for this), also the access details (closures/restrictions/permits/etc) need to be made more accessible to the general public. Whilst I still believe actual RDs and topos should be the province of guidebook authors the basic info needs to be super accessible and obvious, this could then contain links to topos or contact info for guidebook publishers. The net is the obvious place for this information, yet I wonder how many overseas climbers know where to look (Climb.co.za - where else!) or even that the MCSA exists?

Anyway someone fit should try and repeat the Germans route and see if it really is the same line or what.


Last edited by XMod on Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
XMod wrote:
Whilst I still believe actual RDs and topos should be the province of guidebook authors the basic info needs to be super accessible and obvious


Speaking of which, wasn't Tony Lourens supposed to be compiling a Country Routes guide? Any word on that? Which reminds that I have a few topo's lying around that I'll put up as well (that were suppose to be merged into a long since abandoned guide...)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group