Quantcast
It is currently Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:17 am

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: DMM vs. Black Diamond.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 592
For all those trad enthusiasts who’s rack consists of both Black Diamond Stoppers and DMM Wallnuts.
Note that there is a crucial symmetry difference between them.

In placing a nut broad side into a crack (parallel to the wall with the wide side making contact) you would place the DMM with the bulge towards the wall and the hollow side towards the climber. In placing the Black Diamond the nut needs to be placed with the bulge towards the climber and the hollow side towards the wall.

If my writing is difficult to understand, compare them by looking at them from the top and try to spot the difference.

I learned this the hard way this weekend, so spread the word, this knowledge may just come in really handy some day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 2980
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Black Diamond Stopper:
Image

DMM Wallnut:
Image

_________________
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Expain...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 am
Posts: 132
Location: Pretoria / Johannesburg
Real Name: Andrew Blanche
Is there anybody who knows the reason for this - I mean in terms of how the forces react on the different designs? I'm thinking - if you understand that - you could use your equipment beter :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Posts: 2980
Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Here is a link to the BD site, at the bottom is a downloadable PDF on using stoppers. www.bdel.com/gear/stoppers.php

It starts...
PLACING/USING A NUT
◆ Get proper instruction.
◆ This pamphlet is no substitute for experience
or qualified instruction.

_________________
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:59 pm
Posts: 719
Oh wow, never seen that before. Good spotting. What happened? Did your nut jump out the crack?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 592
I took a factor 2
Onto a girl
In a hanging stance
at Krakadouw
when my best piece popped, because of the symmetry difference.

I sh!t you not.

She insisted we bail.
I climbed the route the following day though :rambo:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 149
Huh? I've read both usage guides.

http://www.dmmclimbing.com/uploads/docu ... 0Mar09.PDF
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/up ... %20WEB.pdf

...and I don't see the reason. If anything from the pictures of the usage for DMM (see attachment) it appears your description of placements isn't correct.

Attachment:
dmm.JPG
dmm.JPG [ 3.18 KiB | Viewed 1528 times ]


You may well be right, but you haven't explained WHY.

Quote:
when my best piece popped, because of the symmetry difference


You sure it wasn't just a kak placement....he he he j/k. Glad you are ok. ;).

zb.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:07 pm
Posts: 147
Location: somerset-west
Real Name: phlip olivier
Luckily my nut placements are so 'good', they fall out before I fall off. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 592
Sigh,

Get hold of a Black Diamond Stopper and DMM Wallnut.
The real thing, not a drawing.

Hold the cable pointing to the ground and look from the top.

You will notice both have a boep-pens.
Now hold both boep-pens away from you.

Look at the sides 90° to the boep-pens.

You will notice the DMM gets WIDER to the boep-pens.
You will notice the BD gets NARROWER towards the boep-pens.

In the words of the great Satchmo "If you have to ask, you'll never know"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 149
Quote:
Sigh,


I know. Us n00bs aren't worthy! ;)


Quote:
You will notice the DMM gets WIDER to the boep-pens.

Image

Quote:
You will notice the BD gets NARROWER towards the boep-pens.

Image

So explain why it must *always* go in, in the manner you are talking about? Surely it depends on what direction the crack is flaring?

zb.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:26 pm
Posts: 6
This issue is very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up. I have read both manuals, I have seen both types of stoppers, and I think the way you place them has to do more with the shape of the crack than with the shape of the device...maybe someone can explain me why I'm wrong...

Buenas escaladas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
yebo, it all seems overcomplicated - just check the shape of the crack; the shape of your nut; place accordingly. give a few good tugs to ensure it sits properly. go for it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Grant Marinus
I agree with ZAbullet on this, Hann you need to elaborate some more ... what piece did you place (that you say was your best piece) and on what basis can you say that if you had placed the other stopper it would not have popped ... sorry the only thing that appears certain from your post is the slight difference in design of the pieces. Having said that there is no compelling evidence to suggest one would have done the job better then the other or that your initial placement or even the rock was not the cause of the problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 592
I'm not prescribing how to place a nut.

I'm trying to inform all that gear are not the same.

As xuri_inti notes: Every placement is a combination of the rock, the gear and the interaction between the two.

Allow me explain, as I see we have slower ones with us today...
(just pulling your wire zb :mrgreen: )

If you've been climbing exclusively on DMM walnuts, and somebody hands you a couple of BD stoppers to add to your rack. Don't assume that you can place the BD's in the same way as the DMM.

In essence, know the gear you are climbing with well.

This goes for cams too.
A BD cam you could grab by the stem and 'walk' it in a little further.
- Think standing on tiptoe with the placement just-just with reach.
You cannot do this with a Trango Maxcam, as the a-symmetry will cause it to topple over and fail.

In essence, know your gear, and your climbing partners gear, and sommer alles on the market very well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:41 pm
Posts: 164
If it's really that big of an issue, then climb with one brand of nuts only. And If you're me, that brand is DMM.

Don't EVER rely on habit, habits get you killed...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:34 am
Posts: 192
Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Brenda Marx
No matter what kind of nut you use, I find that the best way is to place it such that there is as much contact to the rock as possible. Give it a healthy tug to secure, also in your anticipated direction of travel, to make sure it sits snugly and won't pull out when you climb further.
:thumright


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], CraigTurvey, Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group