Ok, we've heard from the "Elitist Traddies", the Sport climbers, the boulderers and even the armchair wanabee whatevers.
How about us top ropers?. I am not a "Trad" climber or a "Sports" climber, I am a top rope purist.
My balls are peanut sized when it comes to leading (but thankfully that topic was dropped about 10 pages ago).
In other words I am the LCD (lowest common denominator) referred to above.
I have top roped in Du toits, silvermine, cederberg, the mine, klein witnerhoek, montague,Toverkop, TM, blah blah.
They are all fun in their own way, and they all seem to have their own evolving set of ethics to keep them fun.
I think the title of this thread, when it started, was "Bad things happen when good men do nothing". (sorry for quoting, that was also dissed a few pages back)
Hilton doesn't seem to be advocating "ethics police" (he's one of the biggest anarchists out there). Yes, everyone breaks the rules, but they tend not to publish the fact on some "hot flash" web page when they do so IF THEY KNOW THAT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS UNACCEPTABLE .
Hilton has also repeated that this is not about sport vs trad or chopping Newborn. Newborn is now part of the history of Yellow Wood. Sean wasn't aware of any consensus concerning bolts there, although i believe Jeremy "was a bit uneasy" about the route 10 years ago. I would love to do it if someone will give me a top rope and a set of jumars.
It is about CONSENSUS, or at least making people aware that at his point in time, most people don't really want things like "names and biographies painted on rocks" etc.
Most people tend to be subtle when they are breaking the "RULES". Yes I pull on every piece of gear on my way up, but I have fun and don't claim anything other than the fact that I am a crap climber .
I thought that sport/bolted climbing would evolve into multi pitch run out routes as a natural extension to the UPPER levels of climbing that i could admire from my armchair. Jeremy seems to be trying to find out what is presently acceptable, which is, I believe, the point of this topic.
For example: I now know to stand downwind from Guy when smoking before i get the "butt shoved up my crack". (Honestly, I've always carried my butts out, and your mates too)
From this it appears that there is a place for the SCORN whatever. It keeps things real without needing promulgated RULES and will change over time. (Riding an ice-cream cart along Carrols ledge while my mates and I are crawling along it is a form of scorn we can do without.)
No, I don't have any hard opinions on "pristine non bolted" areas. I do love them though, even if I spend more time at Muizenberg and sivermine than "earning my turns" slogging up to do country routes. Exposure in F major certainly stands out more than Sterling Silver in my mind, I'm just too lazy to get out there much.
Hilton seems to be encouraging solutions, I really like the idea of removable bolts, finger holes are much more user friendly to top rope on than bolts. (Hang on, didn't Microbe get scorned for doing that 15 years ago at Paarl Rocks?)
Lets get grey here. Don't see why TRAPIBO couldn't work, it does/will happen anyway. (Not sure if I got the acronym right but buggered if I'm paging back 20 pages to check)
So, Hilton, if you manage to get a consensus on acceptability, great, then i can be subtle when i break the rules and avoid the scorn.
This is my first web post/read as I am stuck at home bored out of my mind at the moment.
"Even if you top rope forever, it still beats golf"
"I am modest because I have a lot to be modest about"