okay, since we always drive through the countryside trying to spot new crags whilst pretending to listen to our female compatriot's jabbering - here's a stab at bringing some potential to view. pictures and descriptions will follow.

1st one is en route to wupperthal from de pakhuys, just as you enter the biedouw valley. the closest thing i've seen to hallucigenic wall outside of boven - about 400m long; between 15 and 30m high (average around 20m); rock seems good; guestimate 15mins walk-in from the dirt road. schweet

next one is a big red boy - as you go down to wupperthal from the biedouw valley side, walk-in is huge from the bottom; could not see potential access from the top. seems about 100 - 120m high

it looks awesome. also seems remote.

On the same topic - does anyone know whether there are any routes up Kranskop - next to the N1, close to Nylstroom (Modimolle)?

Thanks for the pictures.

regards

Jeromy

Jeromy, I've also looked at Kranskop, but didn't see anything looking even remotely worthwhile. Maybe on the eastern side, but I doubt it. Rather go to Kransberg - now that's a proper cliff!

That mountain in the last photo looks very familiar, I'm sure I've seen it before, but can't quite put a name on it.

the hallucigenic-type wall is about 35mins drive (very scenic!) from de pakhuys (rocklands) - would be a nice alternative to have if a week of only bouldering is getting too much. i'm sure it will see some traffic if it is developed.
the other wall would be a mission to get to unless there's a road somehwhere near the top. but i guess most of the easily accessible rock has been developed.

mokganjetsi
Sent you a PM

Good work Mokganetsi, now go get some close-ups

It might be good to let Ant Hall or Gosia know as the one close to the road might be suitable for Rock and Road, if its any good. It could be a lot more interesting than Montagu for the R and R - I walked up to just about every potential cliff within 20 kms of town; nothing worth walking in to and I still have phantom fynbos scars..

Andrew

Hi Mok,

This wall has been noted. Let's chat.

Access is always a delicate issue, let's get a few folks with the energy to back it up, and have a proper look, rather than inciting irratic action on the forum.

The Rock and Road is a great catalyst for this sort of thing.
Gosia and I have been trying to incite people to check out a short list of areas like this, with inconclusive results so far. There is a little search and creation project in the pipeline.

Like I say - let's chat.

(Ditto anyone else with ideas to add to our short-list)

ant

antventure@yahoo.com
082 290 2937

Hi Shorti,

I found a road which gave me quite a close up of Kranskop. the eastern side has nothing on it. one could easily hike up to the top on the eastern side.

I also had a look at Kransberg, spectacular...

Regards

Jeromy

As far as I know the owners of the land that has the red wall as you enter the biedouw valley are keen to develop it for climbing, they asked me to do it 1 or 2 seasons back back but I never got around to it. Connie and Liz at the Alpha farms know how to contact them.

Drill and they will come. The high life and then the low life and then the trouble will start with the locals. There is enough rock drilled in SA...And that land is probably on Cape Nature land and bolting is banned. For good reason.

whatever snort, it is actually private land and they keen to develop it.

Stop the clock! We have a winner! 26 hours 59 minutes till SNORT maoned about how development will bring the LCD!

For the sake of the competition though: Are you suggesting we develop climbing in an area that previously had none? Is this the same type of activity (developing a climbing area) that afforded SNORT places to climb? Do the 90 year olds amond us look at Right Corner and lament the peg on Hyperadrenia? Are they sad that there is now a route up a face that they could have kept unclimbed/preserved? I hope so... Or have the places, that SNORT decided are to be climbed, been ordained for climbing by some higher power?

And if so, Toejam my Capetonian friend, can you run this past said higher power please?

I'll have to say I'm with Snort on this one, but unfortunately/ fortunately no one gives a f**k what I think.... Grade a highway, tar it, put a bolt every meter, take a crap, litter and all be merry the whole planet is going to shit any way and once Snort and his generation die off there will be no one left to complain...

ps : I'm probably being just a tad sarcastic, even though I know it's all doomed I think I still do care ha ha ha ha

Haven't we done enough of that thing called "whatever, develop anyway"? Isn't that what human beings have already proven they're very capable and adept at doing? How about exploring new facets of what we're capable of, for example: Wow, what a beautiful area / crag, let's NOT develop it! Just one of many options, however the point is, it is optional.

This is my forum comment for the year. It’s a long one, sorry. Got an ankle injury so can’t climb at the mo, so I have too much time on my hands!

If Mokganetsi’s crag is any good and it is of a sport rather than trad nature, and the landowners are keen then I hope that someone goes out and develops it. The few guys still sport climbing in the cape are climbing the same old routes at the same old crags. 10-20 years ago the likes of Maasch, Holwill, Samson, Wiercx, Schlotfeldt and others were out every weekend searching the hills and opening classics. Very little has been opened since; no new crags have been developed and the sport climbing scene there is all but dead. The foundations that the early developers laid have not been built upon; there really isnt an abundance of good sport climbing in the Cape. Meanwhile, the scenes in Durban, Pretoria and Joburg are flourishing; new crags, amazing new lines and vibrant fresh communities. A new crag would be a chance to put Cape sport climbing back on the map and help rejuvenate a waning scene.

Why has the Cape sport scene fallen behind? I think one reason is that despite all the visible rock, there aren’t many nice clean steep sporty walls, just massive blocky traddy cliffs. I hope I am proven wrong; maybe Mokganetsi’s new crag will make for good sport. Another impeding factor is the barrage of woefully dated ‘’bolts are bad’’ speech (from a handful of individuals), which emanates from the Cape and invades the local psyche. I feel it when I am there. It is discouraging would-be route climbers (trad or sport). The fact that the strong youth in the cape have turned almost exclusively to bouldering may be a reflection of those frustrations. Bouldering is awesome, but it’s just a pity that the sport climbing in the cape is not moving ahead too.

As a counter to the anti-bolt speak… youngsters and promising climbers out there, listen-up, the rightwing anti-bolt folk have blinkers on! (I think it’s a peculiarity of South Africa; something to do with geographic isolation maybe?) Their attitudes are not only hampering new sport climbing development but (this may come as a surprise) are also holding back real advances in trad by creating a polarized community with little in the way of cross-over between disciplines.

Today’s truly talented climbers around the world (including those who mostly climb trad) realise the value and beauty of sport climbing, they embrace it. Guys like Nico Favresse, Alex Honnold, Tommy Caldwell or Dave Mcleod..these are the folk we should learning from.. Even our very own hero ADK, sport climbed into the upper 5.13’s (31-32). All of the above have one thing in common, they love climbing, sport and trad; they don’t recoil at the sight of a bolt but appreciate the access to tremendous climbing bolts can give us.

If we want to encourage more guys and girls to push our climbing further - trad and sport, we need to de-polarise our community. Have faith in our youth rather than forcing upon them the selfish rules of the old guard. Let the guys develop new crags, allow them to open-up new sport climbs, let them place that bolt on that 10 m blank face on the otherwise tradable line. They will develop a sense of what should and shouldn’t be bolted and be more inspired to progress. If there is the odd transgression, so what? – errors are part or learning and can be rectified. However, under the current apartheid-like conditions, climbers go bad, people bolt cracks in secrecy, there is no healthy mix, only division. Perhaps if the Cape scene was less polarised that incident with the Germans and Yellowwood could have been avoided.

Finally to the new youth, sport climbing IS beautiful. The sequences and lines that can be made possible with bolts can blow your mind, they are just as creative to open and as satisfying to climb as a trad climb. They might not get you high up into our hills but the wonder of working out a move, sticking a hold or admiring the sweep of an improbable-looking sequence more than makes up for not being ‘’frightfully exposed’’.

So, let the enthusiastic Mokganetsi or Ant and others go check out that crag, see if it is sport or trad or a mix, develop it nicely and let us all know howzit cooking.

Andrew

I agree with Andrew, but feel I should add this: if you climb only sport you must try to find someone who climbs trad and go lead a good line. I don't see how anyone who has actually lead a good line on trad could argue against most of snorts comments. At the same time even the most ardent 'tradist' should be able to understand the lore of sport climbing. There must be a happy medium in which both these types of climbing can co exist. The question I guess is how do we go about this?

Yes there is more than enough rock in SA for a happy medium.

You could also stop somewhere en route from Rocklands to Pakhuys, walk 10-20 minutes to one of 4 fairly substantial buttresses and play (this is CNC land so one would first need to do some access organising before bolting).

Regarding the apparent lack of recent sport development in the WC, I think this is more a reflection on the quality and quantity of bouldering opportunities in the WC than anything else.

1st a disclaimer: i took pictures fo the crag from my car from whence it seemed like there is good potential and all the fresh air had me on an oxygen high - if we ever wander up there and it happens to be a dud i claim my disclaimer

my 2c: i think most of the easily accessible sport-rock in the western cape has been bolted and therefore not that much development. need to go the extra mile nowadays to get some new stuff on the map - bring it on! it does seem that there is still a LOT of rock around montagu once one ventures a few kms our of the core areas, as well as the whole de pakhuys area; pictures of seweweekspoort shows the same, but it does become a mission to get there. people go to rocklands in anycase for the bouldering, so crag development within a 30 or 40km radius will probably see some visits.
SNORT: imho more sport crags will lower the environmental impact, since a finite number of climbers will simply be spread over a bigger area - the LCD will always be around so let's spread them thin. places where sport crag development is mushrooming, like Boven, is remarkably clean with low environmental impact - i think most sport climbers are keen to preserve the environment & natural beauty. i however support a very critical view of bolting - once the 1st drill bit goes in its no longer virgin rock and therefore one has to be really considerate of what you are doing; would rather be over protective than the other way around. the whole yellowood incident is unfortunate but i do not think its indicative of the general attitude of sport route developers. and single pitch crags are generally not great for trad so there is not that opportunity to cross the line. i'll support the old school to keep would be bolters on their toes

lastly: i've never bolted a route but is keen to start doing it. not some egotistical thing about getting my name on a route, but simply keen to "give something back" - have been enjoying climbing on routes that other guys have put up with a lot of blood, sweat & swears...uh.....tears.

ps: i'm not claiming any "finder's rights" to anything - sure a lot of people have eyed that crag. just wanted to say "let's check it out".

Mokanjetksi....Makenjte.....Mokenjeti....
Man, could you not have chosen a simpler name?

But, I think you've hit the nail squarely:


This I think is the reason trad is less popular than sport:
It takes effort to hike the 1hour45min to the Ledge, and climb a 3 or 4 pitch route.

Also the reason sport is not developing:
It takes effort to find a crag, scope a line, get a drill, buy the bolts, set up the access, etc.

Also the reason that the Bosch Kloof closure is an issue.
It takes effort to make the mind shift, hike into Keur Kloof and go open some new routes.

I think, this is what the climbing community needs for progress:

1) Closure of popular cags (happening) {Karbonaatjies, Lost Word, Bosch}
2) And discovering and advertising of possible crags (happening)
3) Race between the Traddies and Bolters to see who can open the most lines, soonest, and claim the particular crag as either Sport of Trad, because working together is just to much effort

Hey Snort. I know how you feel. There's too many people on the planet. Climber numbers are increasing, new footpaths are created everywhere, We do things not thinking about the environment, although ignorent people are clever and arguing over this matter with them is very difficult/nearly impossible.

Me, you, We are all contributing to the good and bad aspects of climbing/life. Let's enjoy it with respect.

_________________
Since I started climbing I developed a big crack addiction.

blame my brother for that.... anyways, you can just call me "your higness" if you like; or "king Mok" for short


the friction is on the fringes and that generally creates more heat than light... it's a bit like politics. back at the ranch most bolters are also traddies are also boulders and do it all with joy & respect. and i know you were tongue in the cheek.

Amen brother, amen.

Dear Andrew Pedley

Anyone that knows me will confirm that I am anything but conservative and I have no aversion what-so-ever to sport climbing per se. All the guys you mention that developed sport climbing routes in the Cape were and some still are trad climbers. There is still clandestine development of sport climbing in the Cape by many of these same people and in fact there is no polarization between the past and present developers of sport and trad routes. The development is clandestine because of the consequences of bolting leading to an untenable influx of care-less climbers that piss of land owners and state park officials that then denies everyone access such has happened at Milner and Wolfberg. The US has a huge access problem for this reason.

You should not know better coming from the UK. Climbing in most, if not all it's traditional forms, was effectively invented by the Brits starting in Chamonix where to this day about a third of the resident population are British and the "Old Guard" as you call me still hold sway over most of Britain in terms of ethics and style of climbing.

For most people those mind blowing lines you mention are not attainable as they are too hard. The essence of having a fulfilling life is to have "purpose" and "adventure"! Sport climbing gives but an illusion of both for most people and it is only the very top climbers that can fulfill themselves with this activity. One can but look at the shelf life of sport climbers.....

There is no shortage of sport climbs to do in South Africa and there is no shortage of routes still to bolt in places such as Montague. Sport climbers are welcome to go ahead and bolt the shit out those places and slowly but surely they will be denied access as has happened at Bosch crag.

But leave alone those places that lend themselves to trad climbing and that really goes for the whole Cederberg.

My family and I did the chain route on Half Dome in Yosemite a few days ago - a route that is not just bolted but engineered with massive metal cables and metal poles. This route which one does without climbing gear happens to be an adventure second to none with around 500 people a day causing mayhem and chaos up there. Last year 3 people died doing this route and the Park face may face a legal class action now. The forest is all but destroyed in the area. It is but a matter of time that the iron mongery will be removed and access denied and there is already a permit system in place for weekends. And then it will return to the domain of "old guard".


Oh and by the way, Lucy age 5 is probably (I googled it) the youngest person to ever get to the top of Half Dome and Duncan at age 8 the youngest to climb the route un-assisted.

Its interesting that both Andrew's comments and Snort's resonate with me (damn all that beautiful sea-cliff tradding I've been doing recently!). Access is tricky and it is hard to control how people will treat crags. And while trad climbers aren't neccesarily more enviromentally conscious, perhaps it does often turn out that way.

However, the elitist approach denies some people access to the sport and to others what they enjoy most in climbing: developing beautiful sport lines in beautiful places. What a pity if we have to be so very proscriptive about how people find their challenges.

Couldn't effective management be a better answer? Controlled access in new areas and fees to keep trails maintained etc?

More than once I have had to ask people to clean after themselves in Cedarbergkloof, a kloof that has about 100 routes, of which 3 (In bed with madonna, Twilight floozy and Terminator II) are fully bolted. These bolted lines do not see traffic very often, since they are graded 27, 30 and 30. So the the vast majority of people visiting the kloof are traddies.

So, the question I am posing - specifically to people who claim that traddies are more environmentally conscious - is: are traddies really more environmentally conscious? My experience have led me to believe otherwise. The fact of the matter is that we deal - both in sport and trad - with the exploitative human nature. This is not governed by whether you climb a line on trad or sport, but your own awareness of the footprint you leave behind. And this has NOTHING to do with bolting/not-bolting. How many unsightly pitons are there in the mountains where a bolt would have left less of a scar and be safer?

Lets not fool ourselves here.

Last year I saw this piece of rock outside of Burgersdorp, and this past weekend me and a mate opened a 4-pitch, 80-90m trad route on it! Nice climbing, bomber pro with a crux section of around 19. There is potential for some killer routes on this crag!

A few patches of chalk are the only evidence of our passing.

I will post a report of the climb in another thread, but I first have to prepare the RD and organise the pics.

_________________
"I have no more friends, and my nuts are too small!"

Not to discredit what you said but:
Not true! Most visitors are not climbers at all. At least for Tonquani and Grootkloof.
Way too many!
Not many.

You are right however that traddies are not saints by default.

I think the biggest problem is people leaving garbage and breaking plants. Hendrik says chalk is evil (sorry Chalk ) Speaking of witches, we're taking the old ballies to Tonqs this weekend if I'm not mistaken, hope to see you there.

Out of interest sake, Mok said that new crag can be a sort of a new Hallucinogenic wall. Most (really wild guess) of the routes at Hallucinogenic can be climbed on trad quite safely. So it doesn't mean to say everything needs to be bolted. Something like Hellfire will be cool, I think. I agree with Snort that someone needs to look after the places we go to, but I kinda doubt that new crag will be trashed by too many feet. Places like Silvermine and Bronkies gets trashed because it is easy to get to for the clumsy bunch. I heard Rocklands has to endure too many feet, but I think it is simply because it is our most famous climbing area. By the looks of the photos, the "new crag" looks like too much of a mission and not world class enough for the majority.

Good stuff Lukas!