Hi I thinking to take up trad climbing.

What size cams is best to get and what sizes must I get double off?

Thanks.

Hey

With my small amount of trad knowledge i would say get all the sizes except of some of the really small ones and you don't really need a BD size 4 anywhere on TM (if that's where your climbing)

I would also say double up on BD size 2 and .5

Andy

P.s get some nut's first.

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Andy was it you that told me when I first started trad climbing, first start placing nuts on easy trad, first learn to look at a crack and automatically know what size nut to place, do this with hexes as well and then move onto cams? I agree with that philosophy. It is good advice! If you just move onto cams straight away and don't first learn to place nuts and hexes well, then you almost become like a 'cam trad climber' only where you can push the grades placing cams but if you ever climb something you find hard and you have to place a nut, you don't know how to place the nut fast and effectively because you haven't trained to do that. You then start to fall a part. There is nothing worse, you on a climb, you getting tired, the rock requires a nut, and you by the third attempt still haven't found the right size nut. You become a wreck.

I have been told wired hexes are easy to place than hexes with slings. I bought a second hand set of hexes with slings. I got them for a bargain price.

Hmmmmm

I rate the best is to start following someone and from there you will learn the gear and what is needed and then you can start building a rack knowing what you need.

Or

i say get from size 1 to size 5 DMM dragon cams (they look nice and have a decent price i don't own any) and then i might double up on size 3, 4, and 5.


I started out on 3 cams and 5 hexes and could not really find anything i could not protect

o yeah .... remember to get nuts and hexes too and some slings in various sizes and styles and a whole bunch of non locking biners and a about 4 locking biners and about 2 hms biners and some accessory cord. oooo yeah and this one is very very important a nut-key/nut-tool/nut-scratcher or even a spoon bent in the correct manner might work for some situations.

But hey every one has there own winning recipe for a trad rack

i'm no expert but some thoughts: cracks (horizontal and vertical) in SA are rarely perfectly parallel and hence a variety of placements (both cam, nut & hex) are often possible. i guess the trick is to find the best placement quick.... nuts have more "bang for buck" in that you can carry a bunch of nuts for the same weight as a cam.... and a bomber nut is truly bomber. that said, it certainly gives me comfort have a good selection of gear on the harness. as to what cam is placed more often than others; methinks it depends to a large degree on the preference of the climber. but, by nature, mid range cams will probably be placed more than others.

i would rather double-up on a set of nuts than certain cams.

Yep, I agree. I love my nuts!
Start with nuts, slings and hex! There's very little... almost no climbs I've done where a full set on nuts + several hex and/or sling have not been sufficient.
Don't get me wrong, I love my cams too!!!!! Easy to place/ remove, versatile and trustworthy (if you've place correctly of course), but I'd rather take a big fall on a good nut than a cam any day.
Also depends how deep your wallet is? You checked the price of cam!!??
The ol saying still stands for me tho... the more toys, the more fun!

Also STRONGLY agree with fridge, if it's possible to follow someone for a while to get to know the 'ropes' imho, it's the best route fw!

But to answer your question direct... DMM size 3, 4 and 5 (BD 0.5, 1 + 2 I think) are my most used.
Good luck and enjoy!

I wouldn't double on cams. At least not in the beginning. If you get nuts and hexes, you are in effect doubling them up by adding cams. Rather get a range of cams starting with medium cams, working your way towards both ends of the range until you run out of money. I think the best option at the moment is to get a set of dragons or camelots that you can complement with aliens or master cams for the small sizes, or you can just get a set of friends. If you really feel the need to double, get 2 link cams.

I've mostly climbed on sandstone and quartzite and I don't find that I use one particular piece of gear more than others. My cams show pretty much the same amount of wear and tear. Same goes for nuts and hexes with the exception of my set of peanuts - I hardly ever use them. I do however prefer nuts and hexes over cams and I think the train of thought that it is easier and quicker to place cams is bollocks.

If you know you need 2 cams of a certain size, you can always make a plan, by inviting someone with the cam you need to climb with you or you can always borrow one from someone. Doubling up means you have to carry extra weight and clutter. In my opinion a set of 10-15 nuts (don't bother with bigger than WC size 10, hexes always work better), 4-5 hexes and 6-10 cams will be more than enough for a start. You can always expand your rack if you need to. I hope it helps.

You could also go and lead a sport route which you are comfortable with leading and which has nice placement for trad gear. You climb the sport route bolting into the bolts and in between the bolts you also place nuts and/or cams in, so that you can fall on your nuts, cams in a safe environment, to test how good your trad gear placement is because if your nut or cam pulls out, you still have a bolt underneath you,protecting you.

The Mountain Clubs Introduction to Trad climbing and Advanced Trad climbing one day courses which they run sometime is good to do. It will give you good trad knowledge and then it is up to you to practice trad all the time to get better at placing gear and it up to you to teach yourself new things about trad climbing.

Hi guys thank for all the advice.

I was planning on a set hexes 4-10, wedgies(stoppers) 1-10 and a set of DMM dragon cams 1-5.

Have all the other stuff except the all important nut scratcher.

Next question - Anybody willing to do some basic trad climbing[currently do max 21 spot grade]. Staying in Pretoria and will be in Western cape from 11 December-2 Jan.

I always try to place nuts first. The cams I think I do use most are the mid-size, perhaps towards slightly smaller, but in the end hexes also work super-well; plus they're much cheaper and easy to place and remove.
If you're on a tight budget, start with a mid-size, like the Trango (well that's the brand I've got) no. 5 and then add on one smaller followed by one bigger every time you can afford another one.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimb ... dknots.com

As a trad beginner one of the first things you should learn besides how to place trad gear and knots is how prusik up a rope. If you seconding something and you fall over the edge and you can't climb up, the easiest thing would be for your to prusik up the rope. Your leader could send you down a rope ladder or they could set up a hauling system to haul you up but the best is if you can prusik up the rope yourself.

Practice climbing knots all the time, practice placing trad gear all the time, practice prusiking up a rope all the time.

100% Drifter! knowing knots, rope work and 'self rescue' is vital in any climbing experience. Prusik's are EXTREMELY helpful in all sorts of situations!
Oakley, I/we would be happy to take you for a jol up one of the CT crags (TM, Lions Head or Muizenberg?). Have a pretty busy Dec, but I'm sure we would be able to get up into the hills together. What grades do you currently climb on sports and what do you feel you would be happy to climb on trad?

Will pm you my cell number, give me a call when you're in Cape Town.

Cheers,
Brad

hex #10! Didn't know they still made hexes that big. I recommend you leave the 9 and 10 for later, they're not used that much, although some of my friends swear by the #9. You are planning to get trusty WC or DMM's new torque nuts right?

I live in snor city too, maybe I know you. Anyway if you come back from CT and want to go climb, you are welcome to contact me, maybe we can make a plan, even if it is just to give advice on gear, good routes, sandbags best avoided at first, safety ect.

DMM Torque nuts are available just ask around.

Hi Oakley

If you are a beginner climber remember the following; climb lightly, make sure anything you stand on or pull up on is solid first before you stand on it or pull up on it, don't lunge for a hold and pull a boulder onto yourself or your belayer.

ummmm ... no it probably wasn't me, as i am a new trader myself.

_________________
if your not living on the Edge...
... YOUR TAKING UP TOO MUCH SPACE!

Shorti sounds great!! I'm stuck here until the 15 December, so how about the weekend of the 11th, or if your on vacation any weekday can work as well.

Thanks Brad CT will give you ring in advance... Will be very nice.

My boss is sponsoring my rack....

Oakley - where do you work and when do applications open??? Say what???!!!!!????

Oakley - your employer has just become a (much!) "preferred employer".

Maybe mine will be more supportive of my rack if I promise to spend less time on this site - maybe I could persuade him it would actually be a capital investment...

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LCD SCUM

yes no, I are wanting a boss likes that too! Mine is only interested in taking out insurance on me. 11th might work for me. Btw, forget what I said, if your boss is paying, you should definitely double up on everything!

Stumbled upon a site that sells complete kits... http://www.acmeclimbing.com/index.asp?P ... ProdID=496

Is this kit suffucient?

I will save almost R2000 by importing.

Shorti will give you you a shout during the week.

Drifter thanks for the safety advice...

In my opinion that is enough for a trad rack.

Learn to do bomber placements with your gear so that you can fall on your gear and when you know that you can place solid trad gear and take a fall on it, then you can push the trad grades.

Just ordered the above kit and now waiting for a package in the post - only a pity that it has to go through all the post stations and customs etc will hopefully have it by Christmas.

Come on people of th U.S of A.