How do u justify bolting plastic holds on existing lines even if its on private ground and n0t frequently climbed?
Directed at justin

Yowser..

Well if it's directed @ Justin, pm him!
Unless your point was to make it public?

Wel sum0ne is g0na ask it publically

More info please.

I'm assuming someone's bolted a hold onto a rockface?

hang on, I'm just going to make myself some popcorn for this one...

It's for kids & beginners to learn how to or try out climbing whilst they are staying at the Avalon Springs Resort. The routes there were too hard for this purpose so we had to add the grips on to make it easy for them to climb up.
Yes, it on private land. The Springs asked me to do the installation. As far as pristine natural environment... you might have noticed the large waterslide, swimming pools, braai areas & chalets jutting out of the same property.
Give it time - I'm sure you'll get over it.

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Climb ZA - Administrator

Forket Mr Forket have a large whisky and relaaaxx

Will this count as a route opened on aid gear??

mmmmmm, putting our toes into the water here are we?

MOUNTAIN!... MOLE HILL!

BWAHAHAHAAA! SHOT STU!

Thought it was a rather flaccid topic...

jip, let's see if we can do that! imagine the climbing potential! oops, arguing potential

That's it? I had just gotten comfy and was going to watch this one with interest!

Slight overreaction there...

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Happy climbing
Nic

Justin's & Stu's logic makes sense.
The moles have to start somewhere easy to build up the skill and fitness to take on the big peaks!

Justin, since you have admitted to this travesty, I think this requires community service to undo your evil to the pristine and untouched environment ofAvalon Springs. Did you read the bolting policy of avalon Springs prior to this?

I propose 2-days of bolt-chopping at Yellowwood as your punishment.

(come on - we have to bring Yellowwood into this somehow...)

SIEESSSS Justin how low can you go?!









LOL!! Ha Ha. Tune Snort that it was practice for fixing the runout hard bits on Prime Time!

Nooooooo

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Climb ZA - Administrator

Jussssis Forket, how to win friends and influence people.....
That kinda wierdness is best left for the bedroom dude !

Whoa there young gun. If there's something a-bother - have a word why don't you, f*ck it, have it publicly to provide some office entertainment for the ballies, but have the balls to put 'your name' at the end. Like Justin puts 'Justin' at the end.

My name is Ebert nel, aged 20, passi0nate climber. W0uld y0u like my belayers name and what device he uses?

Anyways, i just wanted 2 kn0w if thats seen as ethical n0matter where it is, i climb r0utes with m0nkey crap and piss 0n the h0lds often, pristine c0nditi0n anywhere in that kl0of, i d0nt think the kl0of is pristine and clean bt b0lting h0lds 2 sum0nes r0ute just didnt seem right. I d0nt spend en0ugh time in m0ntagu 2 care m0re. I just wanted 2 kn0w why, with all those easy r0utes there, s0me out of place routes had 2 have plastic h0lds added.

If you find it justify-able then i dn t mind bt where i c0me fr0m they build artificial walls for it because we dont have much rock and the rock we hav, even if its crap gets looked after.

Ebert Nel
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if you cant climb it, bolt 10 plastic holds to it

This should have been your first post. While if these holds were bolted onto a climb out in nature I'd fully agree with you, these holds are on private land, amongst a development. At least they can be removed one day with little scarring. Chipping bigger holds would have been really bad. Personally I'm not in favour of this type of route manipulation, but it's their land and they wanted that. They could have concreted over the entire face if they'd have wanted to. At least this gets some kiddies up the wall, and hopefully some of them go on to become climbers, making ropes and shoes cheaper for us all in the long run.

I really don't see the point of him putting his name up whoever posted that. This goes on and on. It's a forum. He voiced his opinion. He doesn't have to put his name at the bottom. Really, who cares. It's a random name to me.

Ebert, lastly, I have a couple of spare keyboards lying around the office here if you'd like one (I'm assuming your "o" key is broken?). You're welcome to have one. If you want people to take you seriously it might help, because reading text like yours makes it look like a joke.

*EDIT: looking at your 1st post I see you actually do this for effect. No keyboard for you young man.

easy

Ebert I totally agree with you,the problem that I have with bolting on plastic holds on rock is that people(e.g Private land owners) think that this practice is acceptable. Let's say someone has a crag on their private land with lots of hard lines on, the people can't do the routes so they decide to colour the walls with all kinds of plastic grips so that everyone can climb there....the whole crag then gets spoiled(plastic holds are worst than chipping holds)
Another example...I can't climb Mazawattee but I want to,so I go and bolt on big plastic holds to make the route easier.

Ebert I totally agree with you,the problem that I have with bolting on plastic holds on rock is that people(e.g Private land owners) think that this practice is acceptable. Let's say someone has a crag on their private land with lots of hard lines on, the people can't do the routes so they decide to colour the walls with all kinds of plastic grips so that everyone can climb there....the whole crag then gets spoiled(plastic holds are worst than chipping holds)
Another example...I can't climb Mazawattee but I want to,so I go and bolt on big plastic holds to make the route easier.
Its all a question of ethics...even if its on private ground.....
People don't bolt in the magalies,people also shouldn't bolt plastic grips onto rock
Nothing againsts Justin,I just don't agree with plastic on rock

Rockon, it's a piece of rock in the middle of a massive urban development - so are you then declaring every piece of rock in SA as some sort of 'sacred piece of ground' or 'holy cow'; that if manipulated in any form other than that which we declare fit, should be condemned?

What makes drilling hundreds of pieces of stainless steel to our mountains so much more morally sound?

We rock climbers (I'm just as guilty) tend to get a little too self-righteous, moralistic, call it what you will, about our (yes it's mine dang it!) rock on occasions.

Yes if holds had been bolted onto any of our other public crags like Montagu, Silvermine, Paarl Rocks, etc. ad nauseum, then I'm sure we would all be the first in line to remove them asap.

A piece of rock at a private hotel open to families and kids; it is what it is.

To 9ja

If you have a keyboard i can plug into my phone i would appreciate it, but unlike you i dont spend my time in the office behind a computer, i spend my time climbing in far away places so that i can climb better than people sitting behind their keyboards c0ntributing little to my original questi0n.

Im n0t l0oking for a fight, i wanted to kn0w h0w he justifies it, yes he gave me an answer that i d0nt like h0wever, ok, its private gr0und, but n0w s0methng has been started that can never be taken back, next thing the land owner does is expanding, he expands and there goes m0re land thats open for plastic b0lting, oh l0ok, mazattee is just next to the plastic b0lted line. Lets give the kids an overhanging challange. . .

My p0int is, he c0uld have just said n0, that the practise of b0lting plastic on r0ck is unethical in RSA and could suggest the building of a w0oden or artificial rock wall that has zero impact on the rock face.

My friend and i were talking ab0ut climbing those r0utes 2 days before, only reas0n why pe0ple think they bad lines is because they cant climb the grade.

Ebert Nel
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my grammer myt n0t b gr8, bt i d0nt think ur climbing is. Keep useless c0mments thats n0t relevant in ur own p0sts plz!

Ebert, for goodness sake sort your shit out and grow up.....and please use the ''o'' key as apposed to the zero key, its a wank and it's embarassing.

finally, some action. Now its time for P0p c0rn.....

This is an entertaining topic.

Shame Ebert, so you didn't get to climb this pristine line while impressing scantily clad ladies in the hot baths.

2 questions:

1. what's stopping you from still climbing the route without using the plastic holds?

2. are there not another 400 routes you can climb in Montagu that are probably 10 times better?

If Justin hadn't done it, someone else would have. Heck I would have done it. I'm stoked that people that wouldn't normally be exposed to climbing now get a chance to put on a harness, tie into a rope and enter the vertical realm, even if it is on plastic.