no pillick, i'm not saying to disobey the rules / laws / whatever is okay (read my post) but i am saying equating brian's actions (and my own for that matter) with that of the criminals is absolute BS. trying to bring some balance & focus in this; we need not argue the extremities to make a point - i understand your point and actually agree with it

pierre, you had me choking on my late afternoon cookie there hahahaha

Oh please! Stealing is a crime - but it is only a crime if the owner is deprived permanently of the property or of the use of the property that has been stolen.

You reckon the tresspassers have stolen access fees from him? Monies he wasn't in possession of in the first place, the trespassers have stolen from him? If nothing is gone, it is not theft. Therein lies the technical, but rather important difference between theft and tresspassing. Capiche?

Theft is a crime, so is tresspassing. But stealing != tresspassing...

I wonder if those muggers paid the required entrance fee to Choss?? hee hee

OK, so like usual on this forum, the mudslinging is distorting the point of the thread. I think anybody with half a brain can see where the issues are. I think it is good that some steps in the right direction have been taken, although the proof will be in the proverbial pudding. I hope Choss returns to the pleasant crag it has been for many years. I hope that everyone will obey the rules and respect the landowners wishes.
I hope for global peace and harmony amongst all nations.

Hi everyone - I am new to this site.

25 – 30 years ago I lived in the Pretoria area and the Magaliesberg was my climbing area. I lived in the Cape for a short while then left in 1992 so I am out of touch with local issues.

Crime in SA frequently comes up in the press abroad but I was shocked to hear about the attacks on climbers at The Choss Pile. Are attacks on climbers happening a lot now?

This is so incredibly sad….I think SA has some of the finest rock in the world and I often dream of the day when I can revisit Tonquani, Trident and Mhlabatini again. Are these areas still OK?

To answer you question NO!

There have been incidents in Mountain Sanctuary & in Grootkloof.

You just have to live with the fact that we have to sort ourselves out as a climbing community. To sit & wail about all the people who should do something to protect us is worthless. So is doing nothing! That is why so many of the responses are aggressive (.40 vs 9mm).

So we get to a point where these discussions should not be philosophical but practical! Once we as climbers have decided on a form of action that we are going to try we need to all support that action, not go off on our own individual mission.

Some of the respondants in this forum have reacted by saying they will not go climb where they need an armed guard. I fear that no matter how "good" you are at climbing, you are going to run out of options. Ask Alard about having his gear stolen in the high berg. You are as likely to get away from this epidemic as the guys who stash their beer a whole pitch from the ground in Yosemite - only to find that the bears climbed the pitch, drank all the beer & left behind a mess.

The agro has become really bad - attackers cut someone's rope on Wellingtons Dome when he would not give them what they wanted!

This is not a time to be whimsical about the past but rather unite & do something practical about it. Let's give this initiative our support instead a load of negativity!

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Cant agree with you more Allready put up my name to help.

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Climb ZA - Administrator

Just a quick question Neil to clarify: From your article regarding the work done and Ebert’s subsequent post it sounds like the crag is definitely still CLOSED, until the 22nd May? I see Brian has lowered his standards sufficiently to visit this B-grade crag and post a send on his 8a scorecard for Chosspile.

I wouldn't be too concerned Emile from what I hear his score card is highly questionable anyway. So ignore his antics its only a case of small man syndrome!!

Just want to quickly apologize for climbing there. I had been out of town for a while and not been on climb.co.za to see about all the current issues. I was picked up by others and they wanted to go to Choss so I wrongly thought that the issues had been resolved or something. As a result I didn't know it was still a problem. I know what the opening date is now (27 May) so I'll make sure that I, or anyone else I know (particularly the party that took me there), doesn't go to Choss till then.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

PS --> if anyone else wants to ask me about routes I've climbed, I'd be happy to answer questions in a PM. I don't know why what's his face seems to have it out for me. I'm not a particularly small guy anyways, lol .

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I hate this real world place... I'd be more than happy to live out there rather...

Not sure who you are referring to by "what's his face", but I for one don't have any particular beef with you other than your cavalier attitude towards access arrangements - well knowing it is / was an issue and then not bothering to check. Basically you just said "f#ck it" or some derivative thereof. I don't even want to know how you got in and why you did not bother to ask the guy at the gate, or whoever Ebert & his crew managed to ask.

Go ask Frik at Bobbejaansberg what he would do if he found people on his land without permission. I'll put money on it he won't even bother finding out what's up, he'll get his rifle and start shooting in the general direction until whoever leaves, and continue to do so until no one comes anymore ( Frik is a really nice guy in my opinion, not trying to diss him ). Landowners are doing us a favour and they don't have to - full stop. That's all I'm trying to get across. PMing you about this is BS - you made it public by posting your send on 8a.

Anyways, I've been at the other end of the stick too, so don't feel too bad. One tends to survive these things. Don't know about getting lynched for screwing up access arrangements though......

PS: I dig it that you are exploring & doing new stuff at Bobbejaans, hoping you & Jacques will go to the effort of publishing your developments, it would be a great addition to the wiki.

Since the world is ending on the 21st anyways, I'm getting of my soapbox now. Live long & prosper.

Emile, I don't have any problem with what you did by pointing out the error of my ways. Oubaas on the other hand is making unsubstantiated allegations about me and I don't know if he has ever met me. So that is where the previous post was going. I did PM him about it seeing as he seemed to have something personal against me.

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I hate this real world place... I'd be more than happy to live out there rather...

Cool. I am however going to keep on giving you shit about not writing up your problems at Bobbejaans on the wiki

Hit me up for a dop when you're around.

I uploaded the pictures on to the wiki after the two occasions I was there... Next time I go I'll take some more pictures and upload them too. The vegetation there is pretty dense in places so it makes it especially tough to take photos zoomed out enough to see whole boulders...but this is one for another thread and time

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I hate this real world place... I'd be more than happy to live out there rather...

people get to emotional on forums

*too

You guys realize looking back at where this post started, to the point were we are now, see the tremendous progress made?

I want to sincerely congratulate everyone involved in turning something so bad into something positive! In short, even though many quirky remarks passed, someone did something towards making SA a better place to live! To all involved making a positive contribution, the meetings, the talks, the work etc - I thank you, you make me proud to be a SafAfrikan!

It would be a terrible, terrible shame therefore if someone should disrespect the rules and threaten access to this place... lets respect access rules everywhere, please!

@proze: , thanx 'alot' for that one...
@forket: its called 'spell check'

A 'Like' button is coming soon

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Climb ZA - Administrator

i like that one 2, justin we need a like button on the forum and an unlike button!!!!
sorry for the spelling!

eT